The Conservative Party

I'm With Stupid said:
But it's okay to use the time of a teacher with 5 years of training? It's not just a question of cost and convenience, it's a question of effectiveness. I'd question how effective a one-off lesson from a teacher is going to be compared to a lesson from a medical professional who has just checked your teeth in detail and knows exactly which bits of your mouth are the problem areas.

Kids teeth aren't rotten because they're not getting a lesson in brushing their teeth from schools, they're rotten because 40% of kids in the UK no longer have regular dental checkups. Teeth are the leading cause of hospitalization for children. The budget for dentistry in the UK has stayed at 3 billion for a decade, which in real terms, is a huge cut in funding. But I wonder how much this lack of funding has cost the rest of the NHS who have to clean up the mess.
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Your opening sentence seems to miss what I actually said.

But if children were taught how to look after their teeth then there wouldn't be as many "problem areas" to deal with.

You could send dental students on visits to schools as part of their training.

This has come down to the best way to prevent tooth decay in children. With NHS dentists in short supply, and children's teeth in a poor way, the only issue is whether to leave it to parents - which by definition is a failing policy.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
I take it you've never taught a class full of 4 or 5 year-olds before.

"Right everyone, get your toothbrushes out."
"You didn't bring yours? No, you can't borrow his."
"Line up at the sink. One at a time."
"Make sure you brush for two minutes. Top, bottom, front, back, behind the teeth."
"Spit, rinse your mouth out with water. Wipe it with a paper towel."
"Right, now the next two."

I'm just imagining a class of 30. I reckon you've probably got two sinks in a reception classroom. For any other year, they'd probably have to go down the hall. You could probably have two around each sink at a time. Each one takes 2 minutes of actual brushing, plus drying, plus the time putting the toothpaste on the brush, and the natural fannying around of a little kid. 5 minutes is probably right. Five minutes multiplied by the amount of students you have to get through and the number of sinks you have, and you're looking at more like 40 minutes for everyone to brush their teeth. Now you could obviously have some of them doing an activity at the same time, but then you're not going to be able to properly supervise the activity and the teeth brushing at the same time. You might have a teaching assistant who could do it, but then any autistic, dyslexic or other SEN student will have to just struggle in the meantime. And of course during that time, the kids can't be doing anything that requires the teacher to address the whole class.

And then there's the question of stuff and hygiene. Is the school supplying the toothpaste/brush or are they bringing them from home? It's not like the school can have spares for kids to forget like they can with a pencil, unless they're going to be single-use.
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Answer in the last line, and you wouldn't be doing that every day.

Anyway, it can always be a maths lesson. If it takes one teaching assistant two minutes to show one child how to use a single-use toothbrush, how long will it take two teaching assistants to show 30 children how to do it?
 
Vic said:
This has come down to the best way to prevent tooth decay in children. With NHS dentists in short supply, and children's teeth in a poor way, the only issue is whether to leave it to parents - which by definition is a failing policy.
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Are dentists in short supply, or just NHS dentists? And if so, why is that? Funding for NHS dentists is 3 billion now, it was 3 billion in 2013. In 2013 money, it's effectively 2.235 billion now (and 3.5 million more patients in the same time). That's what ten years of a party that doesn't value public services creates. And it's not even like it's saved any money, because it's the NHS that has to fund the 20,000* emergency dental treatments amongst children per year. I agree relying entirely on parents will fail, but it's a false dichotomy to say that it's either that or super-teacher to the rescue. There is a third option, and that is properly funding the NHS again. We know the best way to prevent tooth decay in children, but the Tories don't want to pay for it, because they want privatisation by the back door and always have.

* based on the responses of only half of the NHS trusts, so the real figure is likely double.
 
Vic said:
Your opening sentence seems to miss what I actually said.

But if children were taught how to look after their teeth then there wouldn't be as many "problem areas" to deal with.

You could send dental students on visits to schools as part of their training.

This has come down to the best way to prevent tooth decay in children. With NHS dentists in short supply, and children's teeth in a poor way, the only issue is whether to leave it to parents - which by definition is a failing policy.
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Then the parents need fucking kicking, this is what’s wrong with this world it’s always someone else’s fault or responsibility, get off your fucking phones and look after your kids, cunts.
Christ it’s even on you tube
 
Blue Maverick said:
Then the parents need fucking kicking, this is what’s wrong with this world it’s always someone else’s fault or responsibility, get off your fucking phones and look after your kids, cunts.
Christ it’s even on you tube
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You'd think they could spell principles....
 
kaz7 said:
Another minister being interviewed using the labour party would take us back to square one and no interviewer challenging him on what that actually means , they wont have an answer as it just a slogan but why arent they asked

Sunak on this morning today , bet he says the same thing multiple times
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I so wish we could go back to square one.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I so wish we could go back to square one.
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The mental thing about that slogan is the fact they are indicating that things have moved forward in their tenure and we would be somehow going backwards if we don’t stick with them.
Not a bit of self awareness in the whole party the silly cunts.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Then the parents need fucking kicking, this is what’s wrong with this world it’s always someone else’s fault or responsibility, get off your fucking phones and look after your kids, cunts.
Christ it’s even on you tube
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Problem solved then.

When this discussion started, I mentioned the US gun debate. Whenever there's a shooting, gun advocates say it's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem. Maybe - but it's a hell of a lot easier to ban guns than "fix" mental health.

How do you "fix" bad parenting? Labour put plenty of money into early interventions when they were last in power, but the Tories have dropped almost all of them. It's a lot easier to do nothing, and blame someone else not taking responsibility, but you're still stuck with the problem.

Fixing parents is almost impossible. Teaching kids to brush their teeth, and the importance of it. Giving them access to tooth brushes, and toothpaste. Encouraging them to tell their parents how important it is. All much more achievable.
 
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I'm With Stupid said:
Are dentists in short supply, or just NHS dentists? And if so, why is that? Funding for NHS dentists is 3 billion now, it was 3 billion in 2013. In 2013 money, it's effectively 2.235 billion now (and 3.5 million more patients in the same time). That's what ten years of a party that doesn't value public services creates. And it's not even like it's saved any money, because it's the NHS that has to fund the 20,000* emergency dental treatments amongst children per year. I agree relying entirely on parents will fail, but it's a false dichotomy to say that it's either that or super-teacher to the rescue. There is a third option, and that is properly funding the NHS again. We know the best way to prevent tooth decay in children, but the Tories don't want to pay for it, because they want privatisation by the back door and always have.

* based on the responses of only half of the NHS trusts, so the real figure is likely double.
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Yes there is a shortage. The practise I attend lost two a married couple - who went back to Romania and a Polish lass who replaced them didn't hang around for long either.

dentek-eu.com

Is there a shortage of dentists? - Dentek

It is important to look after our teeth, but getting an appointment isn't always easy. But is there a shortage of dentists?
dentek-eu.com dentek-eu.com
 
Phil1 said:
The mental thing about that slogan is the fact they are indicating that things have moved forward in their tenure and we would be somehow going backwards if we don’t stick with them.
Not a bit of self awareness in the whole party the silly cunts.
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as I keep saying he is being advised by some right wankers and reaping the "rewards" gifted to him by his predecessors from the lettuce back to Johnson purged the party of any real political thinkers and heavyweights because they wouldn't accept to support his up is down and black is white assertions.
 
Now I my be misremembering this, but I have this vague memory of a dentist visiting our primary school, so early 70s and talking about cleaning teeth properly. Also in those bad old days some parents may not have shown the children how to brush but on the other hand there was easy access to NHS dentists and we went every 6 months as did everyone it seemed and I remember my dentist checking I knew how to brush my teeth. So outside intervention in children's teeth is nothing new or revolutionary.
 
blueparrot said:
Now I my be misremembering this, but I have this vague memory of a dentist visiting our primary school, so early 70s and talking about cleaning teeth properly. Also in those bad old days some parents may not have shown the children how to brush but on the other hand there was easy access to NHS dentists and we went every 6 months as did everyone it seemed and I remember my dentist checking I knew how to brush my teeth. So outside intervention in children's teeth is nothing new or revolutionary.
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Enough of this sideline now.

No increased spending on NHS dentistry for ten years is why it's in the Tory misgovernment thread.

Can we move on to something else that means we'd relish going back to square one with Labour?
 
Vic said:
Enough of this sideline now.

No increased spending on NHS dentistry for ten years is why it's in the Tory misgovernment thread.

Can we move on to something else that means we'd relish going back to square one with Labour?
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Labour have a long way to go to get back. If square one is getting back to when it actually felt decent then we are on -14. These Tories will never get anywhere near to making things better and they won’t be happy until they’ve dismantled this country for their own ends, confirmed by their blatant attempt to bribe the public with trinkets of lead in the form of tax cuts that many have already said, will not help anybody.
 
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