The Conservative Party

mexico1970 said:
Is there a shortage of people applying to drive trains?
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mexico1970 said:
If the training is free and an applicant jumps ship they should be forced to pay back their costs for training if they jump ship and don't complete say 5 years (Arbitrary figure for an example).
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Or just have a nationalised industry where different companies aren't competing with each other for labour. Or doesn't capitalism like the free market when demand for labour means it's a seller's market?
 
TinFoilHat said:
TOCs have tried that with limited success. Some now have contracted loyalty clauses where they must stay for 3/4 years to recoup their training costs.

Just another example of internal fuckkery on the network.

If as promised it all comes back in house under GBR if Labour are elected it will become one of the 'ironing out' issues and I'm not sure the unions would accept it.
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What? The unions will oppose renationalisation because it might remove competition for labour? Just go back to rewarding long service with promotion up the rosters to a "top link driver".

They'll still have to pay enough to get people who don't mind signing on in the middle of the night.
 
mexico1970 said:
I did say that I wanted to move to Luxembourg ( that was tongue in cheek you know?) as for being responsible for Spain, not in my remit.

Maybe if your friend had the requisite skills Spain needed he would stand a better chance with his paperwork, entitlement isn't and shouldn't be expected should it?
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You're just not listening, are you? But Brewster liked the nonsense.
 
TinFoilHat said:
It's seems the Tories were right about mass migration.

Not from Africa, but Málaga, Benidorm, Majorca, Costa del Sol....

Essex will be over populated!
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Has anyone calculated how much "net migration" is ex-Pats coming home after Brexit?
 
Vic said:
Has anyone calculated how much "net migration" is ex-Pats coming home after Brexit?
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Very little I believe.

The vast majority of the really high migration levels has been international students and skilled workers, with humanitarian visas (Ukraine etc.), a distant third.
 
If you want to cut immigration you have to have a plan to do it, as the economy is currently geared to the employment of large numbers of immigrants.

The problem is, that Tories think planning is 'socialist.' They are shit at anyway.

You leave these issues to the 'market' and the present status is exactly what you get.

No, if you're serious about reducing immigration (as opposed to talking bollocks to appease bigots) you have to accept that :

1. You need a plan.
2. It will take time to change over.
3. (This above all). It will cost. ££££££££££££s. (Just think of the cost of training all those extra doctors, nurses and dentists for starters.) Don't moan when prices/your taxes shoot up. Because they will have to do. That's the price of your choice. BTW you may also find you don't get your State Pension until 70 or even 75.
 
BrianW said:
If you want to cut immigration you have to have a plan to do it, as the economy is currently geared to the employment of large numbers of immigrants.

The problem is, that Tories think planning is 'socialist.' They are shit at anyway.

You leave these issues to the 'market' and the present status is exactly what you get.

No, if you're serious about reducing immigration (as opposed to talking bollocks to appease bigots) you have to accept that :

1. You need a plan.
2. It will take time to change over.
3. (This above all). It will cost. ££££££££££££s. (Just think of the cost of training all those extra doctors, nurses and dentists for starters.) Don't moan when prices/your taxes shoot up. Because they will have to do. That's the price of your choice. BTW you may also find you don't get your State Pension until 70 or even 75.
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People who come here don't have to live here by being a citizen and furthermore we shouldn't have to be helping big business to pay low wages and stretch the infrastructure for the bottom 40% where resources are spread so thin any way, but that's OK they are referred to as just bigots anyway ( I bet Gordon Brown regretted his moment in the sun).

It's a circular argument, get the people that are already here working we don't need to import more people, nobody is moaning about taxes on the lower rung it's mainly the middle rung who want a latte at 10pm and a smiling minimum wager to wipe their backside on the cheap.

What happens when those immigrants get older? Do we import more and more immigrants to look after more and more people? The contrary idiots might not see the future but most people do.
 
Vic said:
Or just have a nationalised industry where different companies aren't competing with each other for labour. Or doesn't capitalism like the free market when demand for labour means it's a seller's market?
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I agree that a nationalised train industry MIGHT be better, for a while until the unions crush it and we end up in the 70's again.

But it's worth a look see.
 
Vic said:
Has anyone calculated how much "net migration" is ex-Pats coming home after Brexit?
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Not aimed at what you've said but I've always found the term "ex-pat" to be interesting.

The retired Brit living in a caravan in Benidorm for the past few years, who probably voted for Brexit, sees themself as a "British ex-pat" when in Spanish eyes they're actually an immigrant.
But they wouldn't dream of calling a Syrian refugee a "Syrian ex-pat" .

The Brit maybe hasn't become a resident, doesn't pay fair tax, doesn't move outside Benidorm and has Spanish limited to ola, uno cerveza and scorchio.
And is now complaining about being obliged to leave Spain.
 
mexico1970 said:
I agree that a nationalised train industry MIGHT be better, for a while until the unions crush it and we end up in the 70's again.

But it's worth a look see.
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Yes, because the unions are letting the trains move smoothly now , oh wait a minute.
 
blueparrot said:
Yes, because the unions are letting the trains move smoothly now , oh wait a minute.
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It will be a lot worse IMHO, if the solution is give strikers what they want to prevent strikes then that's a bad strategy.

Or will railway workers suddenly feel at ease when the railways are run by the government breath a collective sigh of relief and go to work with a spring in their step?
 
Michael Fox/Sebastian Green/Grant Schapps is telling Tory MPs to run on the Mayoral election strategies of rejecting Westminster and run on 'local issues'

Tories running on their own policies that contradict the official line will go down well. They must think the electorate is too stupid to notice.
 
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Something like £130 billion is wasted every year on privatised utilities ( water rail, buses etc.) because they’re not reinvesting the vast amount of £, but paying it to shareholders.
Renationalise our water, energy, rail etc & also get back in the EU.
 
blueparrot said:
Yes, because the unions are letting the trains move smoothly now , oh wait a minute.
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Companies can cancel trains with 48 hours notice for whatever reason they like and not have to pay any fines. Usually they'll use the phrase "staff shortages" when really they are using it as a business strategy to maintain shareholder profit.
 
mexico1970 said:
People who come here don't have to live here by being a citizen and furthermore we shouldn't have to be helping big business to pay low wages and stretch the infrastructure for the bottom 40% where resources are spread so thin any way, but that's OK they are referred to as just bigots anyway ( I bet Gordon Brown regretted his moment in the sun).

It's a circular argument, get the people that are already here working we don't need to import more people, nobody is moaning about taxes on the lower rung it's mainly the middle rung who want a latte at 10pm and a smiling minimum wager to wipe their backside on the cheap.

What happens when those immigrants get older? Do we import more and more immigrants to look after more and more people? The contrary idiots might not see the future but most people do.
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I'm sorry, but I fail to see anything in your argument that negates mine.

If you seriously want to cut immigration, you need a plan to achieve that end. At the moment, the issue is effectively left to the market, and what we have is the result of that.

The unemployed people who are 'already here' are rarely if ever fit to do the jobs we most need. Car washing and arse-wiping maybe. But what is your plan? Starve them to force them into these minimum wage jobs? You may just as easily starve them into crime. How many surgeons, doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc., do you imagine are on the dole? I suggest a handful at best and where they exist they have likely been struck off for valid reasons.

Increase the pay rate for arse-wiping to £18 an hour and you might, just might, get more natives to do the job. But then your Council Tax will go up, or your Income Tax, or both.

For the more 'professional' jobs we would need to train far more natives, and that will cost us. Again, up goes your Income Tax, or NI, or VAT. You probably will also need to increase the retirement age, as I said.

The problem with this country is that so many people will the ends, but not the means. In effect, they are in denial.
 
BrianW said:
I'm sorry, but I fail to see anything in your argument that negates mine.

If you seriously want to cut immigration, you need a plan to achieve that end. At the moment, the issue is effectively left to the market, and what we have is the result of that.

The unemployed people who are 'already here' are rarely if ever fit to do the jobs we most need. Car washing and arse-wiping maybe. But what is your plan? Starve them to force them into these minimum wage jobs? You may just as easily starve them into crime. How many surgeons, doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc., do you imagine are on the dole? I suggest a handful at best and where they exist they have likely been struck off for valid reasons.

Increase the pay rate for arse-wiping to £18 an hour and you might, just might, get more natives to do the job. But then your Council Tax will go up, or your Income Tax, or both.

For the more 'professional' jobs we would need to train far more natives, and that will cost us. Again, up goes your Income Tax, or NI, or VAT. You probably will also need to increase the retirement age, as I said.

The problem with this country is that so many people will the ends, but not the means. In effect, they are in denial.
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Nothing you posted there explains why the feckless here can't do these tasks without employing what is effectively slave labour and kicking the problem down the road.

Retirement age people are already working until they die.

There's a hell of a lot of excuses for selfishness going on there mate.
 
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