The Conservative Party

Gabriel said:
Max Hastings speaking a great deal of sense on the Today programme. Quite interesting that people are now starting to be given the platform to highlight the damage Brexit has done and to point out that the UK desperately needs to get back into the single market, tout suite.
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Yet the presenter still had to slip in that a majority voted for Brexit. And felt the need to say that Rees Mogg might not agree that he should be in a museum not a cabinet.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I was thinking about Cameron the other day, and was wishing for a penny for his thoughts. His public utterances since the vote have been platitudes around the will of the people being expressed, but privately he must be horrified at what he’s unleashed. Whatever anyone’s thoughts on his politics, he’s far less prone than Johnson to self delusion and his legacy will be important to him (as it will to all politicians) which is now utterly destroyed.

The fundamental mistakes he made were threefold. Firstly, calling the referendum; secondly heading up the Remain campaign; thirdly, the listless and ineffectual way he ran that campaign.

Think he was right to resign though, and I don’t think it’s fair to characterise that as cowardice, especially given the grotesque way that Johnson clung on to power, and the way that Truss will too.

That’s a sideshow though. Up to that point, I actually thought he was a capable and sure footed politician, and I’ve been proved conspicuously and spectacularly wrong on that score. He made a series of judgement calls that have caused more damage to this country than any other in peacetime since industrialisation. He’s opened a box and unleadhed forces that simply cannot be contained and in the process divided that nation, caused the break up of the Union, hugely reduced our standing and reputation in the World and made us discernibly poorer.

What a legacy.
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I too thought he was OK. Better than anything we've had since then. He doesn't deserve the legacy he will get, but there again he does.

But I prefer to call the Conservatives out on this, and indeed the politics in this country with our media having so much propaganda power. I haven't voted since then. Rich people have directed the direction of this country, certainly not the free thinking people. And they've fucking ruined us.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
As I said in a post earlier this morning, his mistake wasn’t limited to calling the referendum. Him heading up the Remain campaign and the way it was conducted were also catastrophic errors.
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I think your analogy is absolutely reasonable but the one who should bear most guilt for it, I would suggest, is Osborne not Cameron. 5 years of choice driven austerity, living standards dropping for the first time ever, life expectancy reducing for the first time since recording began, public services denuded year on year, backlogs building up every month in hospitals, courts, asylum claims. Libraries and local authority services slashed, doctor and nurse places capped leading to an over reliance on overseas healthcare professionals and desperate levels of pay for people in the caring professionals.

Leaves job was almost already done for them. Telling people, who frankly couldn’t believe they could possibly be worse off they’d be ‘worse off’ really didn‘t stack up, hence the ‘red wall’.

Finally, the biggest bit that leave got and remain didn’t, was that most people actually don’t put a lot of thought into voting and are much more influenced by emotion. The idea that people carefully thought about the pros and cons of leaving the EU is for the birds and the leave cast knew that, lied about almost everything to and thus played on that and, ultimately, triumphed because of that.
 
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Mr Kobayashi said:
No some tories wanted to stay in the EU but use it as a scapegoat for their own mistakes or issues that they ignored, or to win support from groups like the fishermen by going against European laws that they had agreed to.

A convenient boogeyman to distract the working class idiots that vote for the tories against their better interests.
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It is and was the standard response of the right wing.
Create an enemy to unite your support.
And what better and more obvious enemy than 27 countries full of foreigners trying to ‘do us down‘.
The tories won a huge majority based on this, but they had to sell their souls to the ex-ukippers and ERG types to achieve it.
Now they have to pay the price for their Faustian pact.
 
I don't think the home office minister speaking in parliament now believes a word he says about the prime minister has the confidence of the party.
 
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