The Conservative Party

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

absolutely - Brexit is one of the biggest economic disasters I can think of

All I say was the pressure for Government in 2016 to implement the EU vote was big at the time, it wasn't just the Farage looneys, more and more people were demanding it

had we ignored their wishes, I can't imagine how strong the demand would be in the last couple years with economic turmoil from Covid and Russia being blamed on the EU, eventually sooner or later it would have gone to a vote.

The public didn’t know what they were voting for, they didn’t understand what the ramifications would be on the economy being outside the largest trading block on the planet.

The Eu started a lot slower on vaccinations than the U.K. did but got there a lot more quicker than the U.K. did. I think the Russia situation has shown there is a lot more unity in Europe than people think to face a common enemy like Putin. He underestimated that and is the reason why his 4 day war is still going 8 months later.

 

[threespires]

Do you think the EU vote could have been denied forever ? The gammon Mob were whipping up so many millions of people, I can imagine they would pin recent economic troubles on the EU and people would be rioting for a vote by now - to me, it was always a matter of time

Only thing I would say is I think the word 'mob' probably undersells how organised their campaign has been for maybe 30 odd years. Some of those they whipped up might be described as a mob but the architects of this were pretty effective in delivering what they were after until their wild arse theories eventually met reality. As with all zealots, especially greedy ones, they'll still be plotting now how they can turn this round/hide in the tall grass for a while and reappear. This is why it's important not only that we get some grownups in charge but that we get some kind of electoral reform to stop extremists taking over the country again.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

To what end? Other than secretly being a Leaver.

Because he wanted to unify the Tories..... you have to ask yourself why the Tory Press was anti Eu for many many years before the referendum ... had the country voted remain the negative press would've continued. The Tories always wanted us out of the Eu and constantly told lies to facilitate that.

 

[HelloCity]

Imagine how much of a psychopath you’d have to be to vote for this lot.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Because he wanted to unify the Tories..... you have to ask yourself why the Tory Press was anti Eu for many many years before the referendum ... had the country voted remain the negative press would've continued. The Tories always wanted us out of the Eu and constantly told lies to facilitate that.

I don’t agree with your analysis. I accept he wanted to unify the Tories, but by settling the argument the other way. Your opinion thst the Tories are a unified group opposed to the EU simply doesn’t stand up to objective scrutiny.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Only thing I would say is I think the word 'mob' probably undersells how organised their campaign has been for maybe 30 odd years. Some of those they whipped up might be described as a mob but the architects of this were pretty effective in delivering what they were after until their wild arse theories eventually met reality. As with all zealots, especially greedy ones, they'll still be plotting now how they can turn this round/hide in the tall grass for a while and reappear. This is why it's important not only that we get some grownups in charge but that we get some kind of electoral reform to stop extremists taking over the country again.

agreed, Cameron was up against it, the general public were being told economically we'd be better off, more money for the NHS, we'll control our borders and control our laws - all with a splash of patriotic fervour, anything negative happening was the fault of the EU, not the Government

It was very hard to argue against this rising tide - many millions wanted out at all costs, fingers in ears.

 

[Gabriel]

 

[remember arthur mann]

Every time I see a tory MP being interviewed with the every so false smile, this comes to mind.

 

[threespires]

Because he wanted to unify the Tories..... you have to ask yourself why the Tory Press was anti Eu for many many years before the referendum ... had the country voted remain the negative press would've continued. The Tories always wanted us out of the Eu and constantly told lies to facilitate that.

I think a specific wing of the Tory party wanted us out of the EU as a necessary step to enact their broader agenda. This wing aided by the press and other rich backers were able to use Cameron's complacency and incompetence to take control of the Tory party. I think what we witnessed was a textbook case of entryism.

 

[inbetween]

Because he wanted to unify the Tories..... you have to ask yourself why the Tory Press was anti Eu for many many years before the referendum ... had the country voted remain the negative press would've continued. The Tories always wanted us out of the Eu and constantly told lies to facilitate that.

I don't think this is true. The Tories campaigned in government to remain in the EU and it destroyed Cameron and it eventually destroyed May. The Tories literally fronted the big business element of remain. The remain campaign was mostly fronted by remain Tories with funding from Goldman Sachs.

The reason that the Tories are so divided is because they're completely split by big business remainers and analogue watches like Reese-Mogg who not only wanted Brexit but they want to go back to the Victorian ages. It's the latter that have infiltrated the party and are destroying it from within, it's why Jacob Reese-Mogg is in cabinet. People like Boris or Truss would never have him in but they had to appease that element of the party for support.

Ultimately though what has enabled them is the electorate who have consistently shown that they wanted Brexit above all else and it's allowed the hard right in. The end result is where we are now, the Tories were always divided on Brexit but now they're even more so because the fossils in the Tories actually do wield some power.

The only reason why Labour are looking so good right now is because they've already had their division exercise and most of the hefty dividing elements have been silenced or purged out of the party.