The Conservative Party

metalblue said:
No. What I said was a load of old tripe was this



And the evidence we all accept as impartial backs up that this is a load of old tripe. It wasn’t some sort of special Tory pipeline for Tory supporting people to get contracts. It was a pipeline where ALL MPs/peers/ specialists/officials could make recommendations on suppliers.

The last part of your post is important. Did the government act illegally in awarding contracts as per this tweet from a lord of the realm?



No.

Have they acted unlawfully in not publishing details of these contracts within 30 days? Absolutely they have and that has been proven in a court of law. And I fully support that government being held to account. They should now ensure they comply.
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There isn’t any evidence either way yet, as you say, hopefully now it will come out. That and the three cases already underway.

On the VIP lane, how could it be used by all Mps when they didn’t even know about it’s existence? It was never told to parliament or the House of Lords as a whole, only to select groups and across government - why do you think it got so much publicity when the NAO reported on its existence and the Lib Dem’s and Labour, let alone potential suppliers, kicked off about it?

Yes it was essentially a Tory only pipeline, that’s the controversy!
 
meltonblue said:
There isn’t any evidence either way yet, as you say, hopefully now it will come out. That and the three cases already underway.

On the VIP lane, how could it be used by all Mps when they didn’t even know about it’s existence? It was never told to parliament or the House of Lords as a whole, only to select groups and across government - why do you think it got so much publicity when the NAO reported on its existence and the Lib Dem’s and Labour, let alone potential suppliers, kicked off about it?

Yes it was essentially a Tory only pipeline, that’s the controversy!
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So how come non Tory MPs and peers got to hear about it then? Has anyone given an explanation for that? Who has gone on record to say they weren’t informed of its existence? I suspect it probably coincided with parliament being in recess so not sure on how these things get informed etc but appreciate it would have been a bit different.
 
metalblue said:
So how come non Tory MPs and peers got to hear about it then? Has anyone given an explanation for that? Who has gone on record to say they weren’t informed of its existence? I suspect it probably coincided with parliament being in recess so not sure on how these things get informed etc but appreciate it would have been a bit different.
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Why are you assuming non Tory mps got to hear about it?

This was Reeves’s comments on it -

“That’s why in the summer I called for the National Audit Office to investigate the government’s contracting behaviour. They lifted the lid on a series of fast-tracking processes which the government had developed, based on who you know, not what you know, or what you have done. The government established a ‘VIP fast lane’ with even less scrutiny. But despite many questions from Labour, there is no information about which businesses gained access to this fast track, and the government are yet to reveal details of the companies in this lane, how they were selected, and how much they have benefited.”

It was only advertised across government, not parliament.
 
meltonblue said:
Why are you assuming non Tory mps got to hear about it?

This was Reeves’s comments on it -

“That’s why in the summer I called for the National Audit Office to investigate the government’s contracting behaviour. They lifted the lid on a series of fast-tracking processes which the government had developed, based on who you know, not what you know, or what you have done. The government established a ‘VIP fast lane’ with even less scrutiny. But despite many questions from Labour, there is no information about which businesses gained access to this fast track, and the government are yet to reveal details of the companies in this lane, how they were selected, and how much they have benefited.”

It was only advertised across government, not parliament.
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I’m not assuming anything. The NAO said so (I’ve highlighted the part where they say 64 MPs/peers who were not in government- that would by definition be non-tories)


“
Fewer than 250 sources for these leads were recorded: 144 leads came from
the private offices of ministers, including referrals from MPs who had gone
to ministers with a possible manufacturer in their constituency and where
private individuals had written to the minister or the private office with offers of help; 64 leads were direct from MPs or members of the House of Lords not in government; 21 leads were from officials, such as a Department of International Trade network that was looking for sources worldwide, and the private office of the Permanent Secretary of the Department of Health & Social Care; and three leads were from other identified sources that did not fall into the categories above.”

I don’t understand the comment from Reeves “with even less scrutiny”... they went through the same 8 part process as non-priority lane contracts. Unless she is referring there to scrutiny post signing which we all know the government failed in its obligations.
 
metalblue said:
I’m not assuming anything. The NAO said so (I’ve highlighted the part where they say 64 MPs/peers who were not in government- that would by definition be non-tories)


“
Fewer than 250 sources for these leads were recorded: 144 leads came from
the private offices of ministers, including referrals from MPs who had gone
to ministers with a possible manufacturer in their constituency and where
private individuals had written to the minister or the private office with offers of help; 64 leads were direct from MPs or members of the House of Lords not in government; 21 leads were from officials, such as a Department of International Trade network that was looking for sources worldwide, and the private office of the Permanent Secretary of the Department of Health & Social Care; and three leads were from other identified sources that did not fall into the categories above.”

I don’t understand the comment from Reeves “with even less scrutiny”... they went through the same 8 part process as non-priority lane contracts. Unless she is referring there to scrutiny post signing which we all know the government failed in its obligations.
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What? There’s plenty of Tory mps not in government. Only two peers in the House of Lords are too.

Clearly no Labour mp has used it, as Reeves couldn’t have said what she did as the government would have had an easy rebuttal.

On the second point, it probably will be that some of it was done post signing. That or again due to the lack of transparency, we don’t really know if they did follow process fully or not.
 
metalblue said:
What a load of old tripe.

The government were inundated with over 15,000 offers of help for PPE and equipment so to help manage this they setup a high priority lane. 47 contracts were awarded (out of 493 potential supplies put through the high priority lane) worth £1.7bn from this Lane. 7 referrals came from Peers of all parties, 12 from MPs of all parties, 18 from officials and 5 unknown (although 1 was by error). In total 25% of the original referrals in came from opposition MPs and peers so it is reasonable to assume that 5 contracts were awarded by referrals from non-Tory MPs and peers versus 14 that came from Tory MPs and peers.

IN PARALLEL there was the regular supply chain route which was also procuring PPE and equipment

BOTH supply routes went through the same 8 stage audit process. It is correct that, despite going through the same process, more contracts were awarded (by %) from the high priority lane for reasons unclear.

The total of all PPE contracts awarded during this time was £18bn. So we know that £1.7bn from the high priority lane leaving £16.3bn being acquired with the normal supply chain.

Finally we know the government overpaid by about £10bn by on like for like supplies due to MARKET conditions.

So your conspiracy theory is really just a load of old bollocks really, isn’t it? But yeah I know fuck all so you must be right eh?
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They overpaid because they had failed to maintain stockpiles of PPE and actually failed to have any PPE to handle High Consequence Infectious Diseases. (Despite that being a recommendation of their own Cygnus and Cygnet Report in 2016)

As ever with the Conservatives

  • Create a problem
  • Listen to the noise caused by the problem.
  • Throw a load of money to solve the problem (usually to their mates)
  • Claim the praise for solving the problem that they created in the first place.

and yet some people are so blinkered that they cant see that this is what they do.
 
I know there are theories about distracting from 120k dead or the Brexit fuck up but to be honest I am coming round to the idea that he is just mentally ill

 
bluethrunthru said:
I know there are theories about distracting from 120k dead or the Brexit fuck up but to be honest I am coming round to the idea that he is just mentally ill

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Grandiose schemes tend to be the work of a certain type of politician. A man who can come up with the vainglorious plan to build a bridge with a garden on it across the Thames or a man who can reimagine his capital as being the new Rome.

I have said before the whole point of his becoming PM was not to serve the country, but to get his name on the Eton honours board. Then he can boast to his hearts content over his achievements. Vainglorious men however earn the scorn of wise men, the admiration of fools, become the idol of flatterers, and are slaves of their own pride. I doubt very much he will be remembered with affection, he will be cast aside by his party when his usefulness ends and he will suffer ignominy and opprobrium. I don't believe he is mentally ill, I believe he is puffed up with his own self importance and genuinely believes he is doing a wonderful job, the job he always expected would be his.

The sooner the man goes the better, the sooner his lickspittles disappear with him and the sooner the country can have some of its sanity back. He has been an unmitigated disaster and will enter the Hall of Prime Ministerial infamy and take his place in the gallery of shame. A man driven by self interest and righteous entitlement has through his own idleness, lack of compassion and vacuity of common decency and morality was never the man who should have been in charge when the proverbial shit hit the fan, He lacks the gravitas and seriousness to do the most important job in the country and he has failed on an epic scale and no amount of caveats will alter the fact over 100,000 people have needlessly died on his watch.
 
Rascal said:
Grandiose schemes tend to be the work of a certain type of politician. A man who can come up with the vainglorious plan to build a bridge with a garden on it across the Thames or a man who can reimagine his capital as being the new Rome.

I have said before the whole point of his becoming PM was not to serve the country, but to get his name on the Eton honours board. Then he can boast to his hearts content over his achievements. Vainglorious men however earn the scorn of wise men, the admiration of fools, become the idol of flatterers, and are slaves of their own pride. I doubt very much he will be remembered with affection, he will be cast aside by his party when his usefulness ends and he will suffer ignominy and opprobrium. I don't believe he is mentally ill, I believe he is puffed up with his own self importance and genuinely believes he is doing a wonderful job, the job he always expected would be his.

The sooner the man goes the better, the sooner his lickspittles disappear with him and the sooner the country can have some of its sanity back. He has been an unmitigated disaster and will enter the Hall of Prime Ministerial infamy and take his place in the gallery of shame. A man driven by self interest and righteous entitlement has through his own idleness, lack of compassion and vacuity of common decency and morality was never the man who should have been in charge when the proverbial shit hit the fan, He lacks the gravitas and seriousness to do the most important job in the country and he has failed on an epic scale and no amount of caveats will alter the fact over 100,000 people have needlessly died on his watch.
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I was being sarky of course - but yep he's a bellend - you missed off the airport in the Thames estuary - the bridge across a dangerous ammo dump and so on. He is a dreamer as is becoming all too clear to those around him - grand plans and schemes means he can take himself out of the real world which is all to fractious for him and into an imaginary world where a thankful population travel on his bridge to his airport via his submarine roundabout.

He is unlikely to even get a train to run on time to be honest - he certainly won't get HS2 past Brum...... levelling up is just another of his pipe dreams.
 
Rascal said:
Grandiose schemes tend to be the work of a certain type of politician. A man who can come up with the vainglorious plan to build a bridge with a garden on it across the Thames or a man who can reimagine his capital as being the new Rome.

I have said before the whole point of his becoming PM was not to serve the country, but to get his name on the Eton honours board. Then he can boast to his hearts content over his achievements. Vainglorious men however earn the scorn of wise men, the admiration of fools, become the idol of flatterers, and are slaves of their own pride. I doubt very much he will be remembered with affection, he will be cast aside by his party when his usefulness ends and he will suffer ignominy and opprobrium. I don't believe he is mentally ill, I believe he is puffed up with his own self importance and genuinely believes he is doing a wonderful job, the job he always expected would be his.

The sooner the man goes the better, the sooner his lickspittles disappear with him and the sooner the country can have some of its sanity back. He has been an unmitigated disaster and will enter the Hall of Prime Ministerial infamy and take his place in the gallery of shame. A man driven by self interest and righteous entitlement has through his own idleness, lack of compassion and vacuity of common decency and morality was never the man who should have been in charge when the proverbial shit hit the fan, He lacks the gravitas and seriousness to do the most important job in the country and he has failed on an epic scale and no amount of caveats will alter the fact over 100,000 people have needlessly died on his watch.
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Anthony Roberts Churchill bio describes how a vital component of the English ruling aristocracy is basically to have skin like a fucking rhino and be utterly impervious to critisism, feedback or advice. It's the ultimate expression of the 'stiff upper lip' and served Churchill well for about 5 years of his life in the early 1940's. Otherwise it's stupid / useless.
 
Rascal said:
Grandiose schemes tend to be the work of a certain type of politician. A man who can come up with the vainglorious plan to build a bridge with a garden on it across the Thames or a man who can reimagine his capital as being the new Rome.

I have said before the whole point of his becoming PM was not to serve the country, but to get his name on the Eton honours board. Then he can boast to his hearts content over his achievements. Vainglorious men however earn the scorn of wise men, the admiration of fools, become the idol of flatterers, and are slaves of their own pride. I doubt very much he will be remembered with affection, he will be cast aside by his party when his usefulness ends and he will suffer ignominy and opprobrium. I don't believe he is mentally ill, I believe he is puffed up with his own self importance and genuinely believes he is doing a wonderful job, the job he always expected would be his.

The sooner the man goes the better, the sooner his lickspittles disappear with him and the sooner the country can have some of its sanity back. He has been an unmitigated disaster and will enter the Hall of Prime Ministerial infamy and take his place in the gallery of shame. A man driven by self interest and righteous entitlement has through his own idleness, lack of compassion and vacuity of common decency and morality was never the man who should have been in charge when the proverbial shit hit the fan, He lacks the gravitas and seriousness to do the most important job in the country and he has failed on an epic scale and no amount of caveats will alter the fact over 100,000 people have needlessly died on his watch.
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But apart from that no one wears a hi viz, cleans a seat or poses with a vacuum packed kipper quite like Johnson. That should be enough to impress his supporters.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I was being sarky of course - but yep he's a bellend - you missed off the airport in the Thames estuary - the bridge across a dangerous ammo dump and so on. He is a dreamer as is becoming all too clear to those around him - grand plans and schemes means he can take himself out of the real world which is all to fractious for him and into an imaginary world where a thankful population travel on his bridge to his airport via his submarine roundabout.

He is unlikely to even get a train to run on time to be honest - he certainly won't get HS2 past Brum...... levelling up is just another of his pipe dreams.
Click to expand...

levelling up isn't a bad idea 2bh.
 
So tomorrows anoucement was leaked 30 mins ago.

Why bother even having a presser and telling us.

As expected school mback open with little protection for staff or students.

Meetings for 2 households of 6 again outdoora

Golf amd tennis not long after.

Deja vu is all I can say
 
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