The Conservative Party

The credit card shite is getting a bit overblown I think. It’s just an analogy, a weak as piss one granted, to explain as simply as possible that there’s going to be tough times ahead due to the current financial mess the sitting government have put the country in.
It’s a bit crass but let’s face it, politics has been getting dumbed down for several years now. I mean, this lot have basically ruled for the last 5 years solely on 3 word slogans so seems a bit rich to throw your toys out of the pram because Labour have kept it simple as well.
 
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Politicians explain economics in absurdly simplistic terms because they know that the average voter has no grasp whatever of macroeconomics. (Why should they? It's not taught at Thick Street Comprehensive and the media do not attempt to educate people. The contrary, if anything.)

Whereas almost everyone understands a household budget. You have X pounds and you can only spend X, either on goods or borrowing costs. So put it in those terms and the average person nods sagely because they think it makes sense. It doesn't, but never mind.

Labour politicians know that they will be accused of 'wasting money' finding 'magic money trees' and ultimately 'bankrupting the country'. So I understand their need to be - well, defensive. It's an entirely false narrative but the problem in a 'democracy' is that you have to accept that most people have their heads full of bollocks, and even the dimmest bulb has a vote.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
As Brewster highlighted QE isn’t actually printing money. It’s creating a “digital pool” for repurchasing of financial instruments which pushes up their demand and injects liquidity into the system. The idea is that this then generates economic activity in the country at large because this liquidity is used to stimulate greater rates of lending. This is somewhat inflationary and could cause asset prices to bubble, but the inflationary impact is managed by the fact that money only ever enters the every day economy through lending and investment. Creating a similar pool that injects that liquidity straight into the consumer economy directly as cash to pay for services would be highly inflationary and is how you end up in Zimbabwe.

On borrowing - at risk of being overly simplistic, there’s “good borrowing” and “bad borrowing”. Liz Truss is a prime example of bad borrowing, hers was netted off against tax cuts. That is basically borrowing to service the every day running costs of the country and that spooks the markets because it is borrowing with no potential of a return. The Tories borrowing over 14 years has generally been bad because it’s been caused by really tepid economic growth from underinvestment and lack of productivity. It’s a gradual creep of underperformance.

Borrowing is fine as long as the borrowing you are doing leads to some kind of improvement in the underlying economics and generates a return. Investing in infrastructure is one example - say it costs £XBn to build a train track but that could improve the economics by £YBn. If Y>X, then that’s good borrowing. Labour’s task is to borrow in a smart way to build the economy and create the headroom that allows them to put further investment into every day services. This is very difficult to do in our current position and I don’t envy them.

But as you can see it’s all a bit more complex than some absolute shite about a credit card being maxed.
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"So you're not going to print money. Will you be creating a 'digital pool' for repurchasing of financial instruments which pushes up their demand and injects liquidity into the system which then generates economic activity in the country at large because this liquidity is used to stimulate greater rates of lending, even though this is inflationary and could cause asset prices to bubble?"

That'll tell the adults in the electorate.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
I’ll probably vote for Labour but they are losing me big time with this absolute shite about maxing the credit card. Untold damage has been done to this country and its understanding of how things work by politicians inaccurately comparing macroeconomics to household finances. It’s not just some catchy campaign slogan it’s fucking disinformation. If you think the debt burden is high and borrowing more in a high interest rate environment will erode our ability to service other parts of the budget then SAY THAT. Speak to the electorate as if they were adults for a change.

I was fucked off when the Tories talked about it like this and I’m equally fucked off by Labour doing it.
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The vast majority of the electorate don't care though. They hear that, get what he means and move on. They don't have time for some in depth analysis of of economic policy. A soundbite on the news bulletins they understand the gist of, thats where most of the poulation get thei politics from,at least until we get into an election campaign.
 
Vic said:
"So you're not going to print money. Will you be creating a 'digital pool' for repurchasing of financial instruments which pushes up their demand and injects liquidity into the system which then generates economic activity in the country at large because this liquidity is used to stimulate greater rates of lending, even though this is inflationary and could cause asset prices to bubble?"

That'll tell the adults in the electorate.
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I’m clearly not saying they need to explain the intricacies of quantitative easing to the electorate. I’m merely saying they need to stop using the credit card soundbites because they’re not accurate. Not because it’s an oversimplification, but because it’s not correct.

They can come up with whatever slogan they want to, as long as it is actually accurate. I have to criticise them for this because I criticised the Tories for using the exact same tactic word-for-word.

I think Labour are a damn sight better than the Tories by practically every measure but if they want that to continue to be the case then they should hold themselves to higher standards.
 
blueparrot said:
Labour might not be the Labour you want but to say Labour are anything close to this tory party is nonsense. They are miles apart and a Lbour government of any sort would be far far better than this tory party.
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I really hope you’re right but, when Reeves talks about the ‘credit card’ and says ‘we’ll follow the fiscal rules’ which, incidentally, are completely made up by the incumbent Chancellor, I have my doubts.
When Streeting endlessly parrots on about the NHS being more open to the private sector, I have my doubts.
When Starmer rows back on everything he seemed to once believe in, I have my doubts.
When Kendall doubles down on the young unemployed and suggests loads of people are ‘choosing a life on benefits’, who really aren’t the problem anyway, whatever the Mail and their ilk says, I have my doubts.

I hope my doubts are entirely baseless and things do get better, but they should surely be offering a bit more than ‘we’re not the Tories’ and ‘even if we’ve got a policy we really believe in, we’ll trash it if a focus group from Somerset doesn’t like it’?
 
Phil1 said:
The credit card shite is getting a bit overblown I think. It’s just an analogy, a weak as piss one granted, to explain as simply as possible that there’s going to be tough times ahead due to the current financial mess the sitting government have put the country in.
It’s a bit crass but let’s face it, politics has been getting dumbed down for several years now. I mean, this lot have basically ruled for the last 5 years solely on 3 word slogans so seems a bit rich to throw your toys out of the pram because Labour have kept it simple as well.
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A mortgage would be a much better analogy but then people might suddenly twig that austerity is nothing more than a political choice.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
I really hope you’re right but, when Reeves talks about the ‘credit card’ and says ‘we’ll follow the fiscal rules’ which, incidentally, are completely made up by the incumbent Chancellor, I have my doubts.
When Streeting endlessly parrots on about the NHS being more open to the private sector, I have my doubts.
When Starmer rows back on everything he seemed to once believe in, I have my doubts.
When Kendall doubles down on the young unemployed and suggests loads of people are ‘choosing a life on benefits’, who really aren’t the problem anyway, whatever the Mail and their ilk says, I have my doubts.

I hope my doubts are entirely baseless and things do get better, but they should surely be offering a bit more than ‘we’re not the Tories’ and ‘even if we’ve got a policy we really believe in, we’ll trash it if a focus group from Somerset doesn’t like it’?
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“We’re not the Tories” is a good start. That alone should see them in power.

Then they have to prove that they’re not the Tories and if they fuck that up then I expect the whole thing to start again in 4 years time.
 
Lowtower said:
View attachment 109414

Like, just look at that, its not fucking normal is it? The way he acts and speaks, like the most condescending tone you will ever hear, out of touch with any other normal human.

Not saying that the Starmer-trons are much better, but at least there's a couple of normal ones knocking about in the Labour Party*

*Still not voting for them though after all thats happened since 2019.
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The face of a man who hasn't spent a single day of his life in the real world.
 
Tax cuts as the headline act is pretty shitty when you look at the ruination of the public sector. Nobody wants to pay high taxes; but at the same time nobody wants inefficient healthcare, roads that aren't fit for purpose, a defence that is slowly being stripped of its resources and standing, etc. Of course, the Tories don't give a fuck about this because they won't be around to face the consequences of further public sector deterioration. The budget was a fancily wrapped, ribboned box with no present inside.

As for the suggestion of ending state pensions altogether, where does that leave future generations? Most youngsters nowadays can't afford a roof over their heads, how can they be expected to put aside for their own nest egg? If you think scrapping NI will see those saved funds being put into peoples pockets, I've got a long bridge to sell you. My missus and I are comfortable, but we worry about bringing children into the world given the heavy financial burden they will be lumbered with in years to come.
 
Blue and true said:
Tax cuts as the headline act is pretty shitty when you look at the ruination of the public sector. Nobody wants to pay high taxes; but at the same time nobody wants inefficient healthcare, roads that aren't fit for purpose, a defence that is slowly being stripped of its resources and standing, etc. Of course, the Tories don't give a fuck about this because they won't be around to face the consequences of further public sector deterioration. The budget was a fancily wrapped, ribboned box with no present inside.

As for the suggestion of ending state pensions altogether, where does that leave future generations? Most youngsters nowadays can't afford a roof over their heads, how can they be expected to put aside for their own nest egg? If you think scrapping NI will see those saved funds being put into peoples pockets, I've got a long bridge to sell you. My missus and I are comfortable, but we worry about bringing children into the world given the heavy financial burden they will be lumbered with in years to come.
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I accepted that I won’t be receiving a state pension a few years ago now. I’m 46 and the odds of it still being a thing in another 20+ years just doesn’t seem realistic to me.
Fortunately I made provisions to ensure it won’t be an issue but I’m guessing there’s a fair few who sadly won’t be that lucky.
 
Blue and true said:
Tax cuts as the headline act is pretty shitty when you look at the ruination of the public sector. Nobody wants to pay high taxes; but at the same time nobody wants inefficient healthcare, roads that aren't fit for purpose, a defence that is slowly being stripped of its resources and standing, etc. Of course, the Tories don't give a fuck about this because they won't be around to face the consequences of further public sector deterioration. The budget was a fancily wrapped, ribboned box with no present inside.
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To be fair, if you're going to have a corrupt government in charge, you might as well have a tax cut. If they raise taxes, it'll only end up being spent on another big fat government contract for Rishi's father-in-law or something.
 
Nor from Mr Ross who, I think, would have been all over this like a rash had it been a Scottish minister.
 
Hiding the bad things so you can deny them is a Tory thing isn't it? In the unlikely event she gets elected the first time she suggests this in office I'd hope Rowley would resign in complaint

 
Lowtower said:
View attachment 109414

Like, just look at that, its not fucking normal is it? The way he acts and speaks, like the most condescending tone you will ever hear, out of touch with any other normal human.

Not saying that the Starmer-trons are much better, but at least there's a couple of normal ones knocking about in the Labour Party*

*Still not voting for them though after all thats happened since 2019.
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Id actually class him as one of the ‘normal’ Tories when you consider the strange bunch of loonies they have on GB News nowadays
 
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