The fan who jumped on Haaland

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Jesus2020 said:
It can't be fact and 'generally held opinion' simultaneously as you're talking about objectivity and subjectivity as though they are the same thing. The collective understanding of millions of kids is that Santa is real and comes down chimneys with gifts, this doesn't prove his existence.

The passion you refer to is vague. What actions and what things have occurred which you can give examples of and then explain why this is the same. Do you mean smashing up the city bus? Because I'm sure not many on here would defend a group of city fans doing that. So you can't compare the two to back up your argument against anyone who's basically not arsed about what happened.
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That is not true… at all. A fact can be the description of generally held opinion. In this case, the generally held opinion of Liverpool fan behaviour on the forum.

And passion is passion. It is not vague; I am using the word used by many in this thread to not only excuse the fan’s behaviour but to argue that they should face no consequences for their behaviour. I don’t have to give examples of other acts of passion, as we are talking about a specific one others have described as an “act of passion”.

Again, it seems you are using (perhaps unintentionally, based on misunderstanding) a logical fallacy common to debate: broaden and obscure the subject of the discussion to make your position stronger. That is not valid, no matter how many different ways you try to achieve it.

We are talking about a specific incident and I am talking about specific responses (defences) of that incident, and why they are faulty, both logically and from the perspective of most blues on this forum (of which I have been a member far, far longer than you, so may have a better understanding of the prevailing opinions on it).

I don’t think there is any point to you and I continuing to debate this, though, as we are either having two completely different good faith discussions, or you are having one bad faith debate with me (attributing an argument to me I am not making in any way).

So I will just assume the former is true, and say I am not interested in that separate discussion right now (which may have some validity if it is about the broad perception of other fans and their motives for behaviour).
 
Here is my position and I will leave it at that so I don’t attract the wrath of my old colleagues:

If someone decides to take a certain action, knowing the consequences potentially attached to that action, it does not matter if they took that action in a moment of “passion” or in a premeditated, planned manner: they should face the consequences of their action.

And rules/laws against pitch invasion are incredibly important to maintaining order at football (and similar rules/laws for other large scale events), as is enforcement of those rules/laws as deterrence against violations of those rules/laws.

Almost no event—football match, concert, festival, etc.—has sufficient crowd control to stop more than a few people from entering the pitch/stage/restricted area, so strong deterrence is really the only thing maintaining order. It is a social restraint mostly based on collective agreement on appropriate behaviour and fear of consequences of acting outside of that appropriate behaviour.

And all of that applies equally to fellow blues as it does to fans of other clubs. It has to, otherwise we are exactly the sort of people we regular decry and ridicule: those that believe they should be able to do whatever they want without consequence.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Here is my position and I will leave it at that so I don’t attract the wrath of my old colleagues:

If someone decides to take a certain action, knowing the consequences potentially attached to that action, it does not matter if they took that action in a moment of “passion” or in a premeditated, planned manner: they should face the consequences of their action.

And rules/laws against pitch invasion are incredibly important to maintaining order at football (and similar rules/laws for other large scale events), as is enforcement of those rules/laws as deterrence against violations of those rules/laws.

Almost no event—football match, concert, festival, etc.—has sufficient crowd control to stop more than a few people from entering the pitch/stage/restricted area, so strong deterrence is really the only thing maintaining order. It is a social restraint mostly based on collective agreement on appropriate behaviour and fear of consequences of acting outside of that appropriate behaviour.

And all of that applies equally to fellow blues as it does to fans of other clubs. It has to, otherwise we are exactly the sort of people we regular decry and ridicule: those that believe they should be able to do whatever they want without consequence.
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So what you are saying is that he was a silly ****?
 
Indaparkside said:
Can’t believe it’s gone on this long time to close the thread now
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Personally, I can't believe people keep telling other people when to close a thread.

So, in the spirit of being a ****, I will say this. If everyone had just accepted on page 1 that the guy had been a **** and was going to be banned for it, the thread would have died of its own accord ages ago.
 
fulabeer said:
Bit Rawkish this thread.
Using "passion" as an excuse is just so dipperish!

We should be bricking coaches, sitting on police vans, setting fire to the town hall, throwing people into fountains, but eh it's ok, it's just passion.

But as stated, no actual harm done. (this time)
I hope he feels it was worth it.
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Seriously mate, just fuck off with your false equivalences
 
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