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worsleyweb
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Rascal said:
Simple answer then - can the country afford to give 6 million people a final salary pension?
The General Election Thread
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Simple answer then - can the country afford to give 6 million people a final salary pension?
Rascal
El Presidente
worsleyweb said:
OK, ignore me and carry on with your meaningless personal anecdotes.
BTW we have the weakest union laws in the western world. That went well. Not that i would expect you to understand why.
No point disscussing politics with you if its just anecdote as anecdotes do not reflect reality, just personal perception.
Bill
Well-Known Member
its like the lefties have an inbread hatred of success or progress. must be some sort of fear of change.
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worsleyweb
Guest
Rascal said:
I didn't ignore you - I said every sector had inneficiencies. I understandperfectly well. I currently manage about 350 staff and have managed businesses for many years in this city. Let's keep it simple for you. Do you think labour was correct in increasing the number of public sector jobs under the last government? Can we afford 6 million public sector pensions? Is it fair that the private sector is taxed to pay for the generous pensions in the public sector? Please answer these specifics oif you don't like perfectly reasonable and generally accepted anecdotes about the public sector based on many people's experiences.
Bill
Well-Known Member
blue underpants said:
you're not that type of guy.
Ducado
Well-Known Member
worsleyweb said:
You seem to make lots of sweeping generalisations be it about race or sector of work, you seem to be consumed with some sort of pension envy, never have you asked yourself why should the private sector not have the same rights as the public sector, you just want to drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator, for your information most public sector workers are paid much less than their private sector counter parts
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worsleyweb
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Ducado said:
That's a huge statement. I would prefer to say it's called surviving in the real workd. I accept having run businesses that many companies can't afford final salary pensions. That's why they have been abolished. That's not envy it's common sense. I am suggesting that maybe the country can't afford to give 6 million people a final salary pension anymore? I think by the way it has been proven that the public sector are paid more than the private sector. Correct me if I am wrong. Not sure why you brought race into it? I welcome all immigration just concerned about muslim extremism in this country that's all. Don't really see why that is relevant to me saying the country can't afford a bloated and inneficiencies public sector. Our deficit would suggest we can't afford it?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Whilst I disagree with you on most things political, some of your observations about public sector inefficiencies are definitely true ( and academia as well).worsleyweb said:
Most private sector companies have closed off their final salary pension to existing members ( whilst allowing them to retain accrued benefits) but local councils have kept the schemes on for existing members, only closing them for new recruits.
Inefficiencies went unchecked under Labour as Councils simply raised the council tax to hide inefficiencies.
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worsleyweb
Guest
Len Rum said:
Good god - a lefty nearly agreeing with me. On that note I am going to bed. Got to be up at 6. Not got flexi time for. 9.40 start or signing on day like you lefties. I will leave you to sing the praises of ed milliband.
Bill
Well-Known Member
worsleyweb said:
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Don't mention it mate.worsleyweb said:
Us lefties sometimes have an open mind on things.
Sleep well.
Don't have nightmares about Red Ed winning the election.
Gaylord du Bois
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Another one getting roasted on Newsnight .
yerwot?
Well-Known Member
companies offered final salary pensions to attract and retain staff. A loyal and motivated work force was seen as good for business, unlike today. The tide turned when the jobless figures soared and corporations decided they had no need to offer inducements and scrapped fsp's , the first and most high profile and strident was the companies owned/managed by michael ashcroft, whose employees were already working some of the longest hours for the lowest wages in the country, He was also the treasurer of the Tory party with most of his wealth secreted in the Cayman Islands.
The so-called pensions ''black hole'' ( a phrase so often splashed across the sun and mail ) has been used as a threat to collectivised bargaining, to jobs and even the government. The last five years the campaign against the public sector pensions has been choreographed by the tory party and their friends in the media, to unprecedented levels. The willingness of a section of the public to eagerly swallow the disinformation and lies without question says a lot about the society we have become .
The so-called pensions ''black hole'' ( a phrase so often splashed across the sun and mail ) has been used as a threat to collectivised bargaining, to jobs and even the government. The last five years the campaign against the public sector pensions has been choreographed by the tory party and their friends in the media, to unprecedented levels. The willingness of a section of the public to eagerly swallow the disinformation and lies without question says a lot about the society we have become .
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worsleyweb
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bellbuzzer said:
Nothing to do with people living longer?
So much crap is posted on here as if it is fact - when it is absolutely bollocks. Suggesting that there is no pensions crisis and it is all a myth is setting a new PB though.
In 1995 I was working with what is now DWP and was asked to attend several meetings with 'cross-European' delegates. The subject was the 'pensions black hole' - even then.
Focus was given by the influx from east-Germany - many people with the same pension rights but not bringing any 'pot' to the party.
The conclusion of that cross-European working group was that across Europe there would be a pensions crisis by 2010 unless strong action was taken to put in place alternative arrangements - not made up crap from posters - simple fact. Shortly after the Labour party came to power and what did they do? you guessed it.
In the following years I managed the transfer of many staff from the public sector under the TUPE regulations and therefore had first-hand knowledge of the public sector Terms & Conditions. The level to which those staff enjoyed Terms & Conditions and pensions way beyond those available in the private sector was staggering . Lots and lots of great staff transferred but a very large number were those that just were in the public sector for the safety and protection provided.
The pensions position is a ticking time-bomb and only getting worse. Lets see - which party totally bottled tackling the difficult issues of public sector (and wider state) pensions for so many years and which one has had to be unpopular by making difficult decisions to start cleaning up the mess left behind (a common theme).
This is an area where the union's lapdog could do a lot of damage through lack of action in the coming years if he becomes PM.
We are in a world where tough decisions need to be made. Is he tough enough? Although he probably rehearsed saying "hell yes" in the mirror - the answer (IMO) is - is he fuck.
In 1995 I was working with what is now DWP and was asked to attend several meetings with 'cross-European' delegates. The subject was the 'pensions black hole' - even then.
Focus was given by the influx from east-Germany - many people with the same pension rights but not bringing any 'pot' to the party.
The conclusion of that cross-European working group was that across Europe there would be a pensions crisis by 2010 unless strong action was taken to put in place alternative arrangements - not made up crap from posters - simple fact. Shortly after the Labour party came to power and what did they do? you guessed it.
In the following years I managed the transfer of many staff from the public sector under the TUPE regulations and therefore had first-hand knowledge of the public sector Terms & Conditions. The level to which those staff enjoyed Terms & Conditions and pensions way beyond those available in the private sector was staggering . Lots and lots of great staff transferred but a very large number were those that just were in the public sector for the safety and protection provided.
The pensions position is a ticking time-bomb and only getting worse. Lets see - which party totally bottled tackling the difficult issues of public sector (and wider state) pensions for so many years and which one has had to be unpopular by making difficult decisions to start cleaning up the mess left behind (a common theme).
This is an area where the union's lapdog could do a lot of damage through lack of action in the coming years if he becomes PM.
We are in a world where tough decisions need to be made. Is he tough enough? Although he probably rehearsed saying "hell yes" in the mirror - the answer (IMO) is - is he fuck.
the blue panther
Well-Known Member
Day 2. A better one for the tories imho. If they can keep on the narrow message of the upward trend, and somehow avoid being dragged into talking about cuts, immigration, Europe + Cameron's future, they will see a classic climb in the polls. But, I think Cameron is going to be exposed when he ventures out for the debates - whether the others will trip themselves up - well, they can't all do well.
Chuka Umuna on Newsnight? Little better than Shapps last night, but came across as slightly more genuine, and definitely more friendly. Tories have much to do on that score, I feel - they are easily made to look nasty.
Minor parties aren't really registering with me so far, in my sleepy rural English constituency - save for UKIP, who focus only on their negatives. Today, an anti immigration poster. Is that going to make much of a difference to their cause? Their brief appearance on the box made them look like BNP light.
Reread the thread over the last 24 hours. Some interesting opinions, but, what do u make of the campaign - setting aside your personal bias, if possible - it is difficult!
Chuka Umuna on Newsnight? Little better than Shapps last night, but came across as slightly more genuine, and definitely more friendly. Tories have much to do on that score, I feel - they are easily made to look nasty.
Minor parties aren't really registering with me so far, in my sleepy rural English constituency - save for UKIP, who focus only on their negatives. Today, an anti immigration poster. Is that going to make much of a difference to their cause? Their brief appearance on the box made them look like BNP light.
Reread the thread over the last 24 hours. Some interesting opinions, but, what do u make of the campaign - setting aside your personal bias, if possible - it is difficult!
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
In very broad terms, putting politics to one side, to my mind Tories nearly always come across as bigger cunts. They have an unfortunate way about themselves, in the main. There's exceptions, of course. There always are when human beings are thrown into the mix.the blue panther said:
Gaylord du Bois
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What I've garnered from Labour is that they've really no alternative fiscal policies other than those already in place. If they did they'd not be batting off the questions with the "let us see the books first" line. Repeated again tonight by the shadow business secretary.the blue panther said:
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