The Holistic Approach

Neville Kneville

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Cityfan said:
This season and last seasons financial constraints are probably very different.
We have freed up money on wages from RSC, Bridge, Tevez ,Balotelli, Maicon and Toure last year it was mainly Ade and Bellers of significance.

Mancini/Marwood also got in Nastasic and Rodwell so it was hardly a disaster the eason before the same team bought in Aguero, Nasri, Clichy and er Savic who except for the latter looked just as potentially influential as this lot.
We made a couple of mistakes last year but taken overall our business has looked pretty decent over all of the last three years to me.
Where it fucked up was that Mancini knew Balotelli wanted to leave but put everything into a difficult chase for Van Persie instead of just bringing in another striker & fucking him off.

I bet we could have signed some of these guys last season.
 

Cityfan

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Neville Kneville said:
Where it fucked up was that Mancini knew Balotelli wanted to leave but put everything into a difficult chase for Van Persie instead of just bringing in another striker & fucking him off.

I bet we could have signed some of these guys last season.
Whether true or not he maybe gambled that he could keep Mad Mario happy and was prepared to take that risk if he could not get a first rate striker particularly considering the Euros that he just had.
I don't know but not all gambles pay off and we have to accept that.
 

johnmc

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Manchester. Always will be.
meeesh said:
johnmc said:
meeesh said:
Coz I watched all the football last season,have u been away or somert ?
Please look into the definition of fact. Thanks

Look at the rags stats,stats are what you call fact,most shots,most assists,and most importantly for them twats most goals,so try and go off topic and being a smart arse all u want

And answer the question I posed to you was you away or somert ? Because you have missed a point somewhere along the line
No you misunderstand the meaning of the word fact. I don't need to look at stats. If you can show me a parallel universe where the rags didnt sign van Persie then fine.
 

mammutly

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bellbuzzer said:
could one or more of our resident brains give an example of a club that has a non-holistic approach?
MCFC until May of this year apparently. I didn't exactly notice it myself, but there you are.
 

SWP's back

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by the pool
mammutly said:
Joycee Banercheck said:
mammutly said:
I always love these reasoned ripostes.
Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.
I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Mancini didn't get RVP or Hazard

Pellegrini didn't get Cavani or Isco

Mancini sulked and had no fall back plans

See where I am going with this?<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:48 pm --<br /><br />
meeesh said:
schfc6 said:
Firstly the notion that RVP won the league for United is frankly bollocks. United statistically did not improve from season 2011/12. RVP scored 26 goals compared to Rooney's 27 the season before.

RVP, scoring 26 league goals is about standard for United's main man. Let's not forget that there's normally 7-10 penalties per season for their penalty taker. If Rooney had taken the pens that RVP did, their league totals would have been similar last year.

United bought the leagues best striker, statistically they went backwards. It was City that drastically under achieved and went backwards at a canter.86-89 points will be required nearly every year to win the Prem.
United got 89 points, but still wouldn't have won the league in 2011/12.

We dropped what? 8 more points at home than the season before? Only 3 more than the season before away from home.
So you could argue that our home form cost us, reverse the derby and things would have looked a lot closer.

RVP was a good signing but he did nothing the Rooney didn't do the season before.

That asides, the holistic approach is or seems to be looking good. We have bought round pegs for round holes. Siging a Cavanini or a Falcao would have been detrimental to the team. Neither are as good as Aguero, yet both would demand to be top dog, where as Sergio is a great team player, and great impact sub and all in all a very good man to have around.

An elite signing would demand to play week in week out. How do you build a team based on this? The players we have bought seem ideal for what we need, I along with many fans believe that pace on the left and cover at right sided centre half are all we are short of an excellent squad.

The holistic approach has arguably been seen in full working order already. The players seem happier, some egos have left and even the wages seem more parable throughout the squad.
The ideas of the Spaniards and Pellegrini have made our squad look significantly stronger more balance, I dare say a tighter group with a team ethos at heart.

Emphasis seems to be with Zabba, Richards, Kompany, Aguero, Milner and Nastasic to front the squad, all players with incredible team ethic. Navas is a hard working winger, Jovetic is a grafter with a great team ethic as is Negredo and Fernadinho gave up what £4 million to join us.
We have added four international players, strong, established players yet reduced our wage bill. This makes it hard to mock the 'holistic approach'.

Pellegrini has or seems to have got the squad believing they are a team. He hears rumours in the paper, he tells the media that he is happy with his squad, but if the right player comes up, well we'll always consider it. He hears rumours about Dzeko, what does he do? He tells the World that he believes Dzeko to be a great player with an important future at City. I loved Mancini, but he sometimes didn't play the game.

Pellegrini will tell the media that Dzeko is irraplacable, a great player, someone he's admired for years. This has three very good effects.
1. Dzeko feels great, happy to play and builds his confidence. Then we see some great performances in some very difficult conditions.
2. Tell the rest of the squad that he has faith in the players here. That he will give everyone a chance.
3. Indicates to the World that Dzeko is important, even if he isn't. Thus keeping his value high.

As I say I loved Mancini, I highly rate Mourinho, but as a business man, I wouldn't want them doing my sales and purchasing.
Both make it abundantly clear that they want to buy, that they will buy at almost any price, driving prices up. Both will also make it clear as day if they dislike a player, and his value will plummet.

In my eventual summary. I think we have a better team, a better squad, and happier squad and youth will see that the appointment of Viera as an indication that we intend to take our youth very seriously.

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all
Then you only prove you are an idiot as he goes through the stats - paragraph or two down.
 

Joycee Banercheck

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mammutly said:
Joycee Banercheck said:
mammutly said:
I always love these reasoned ripostes.
Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.
I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Yep. justified.
 

mammutly

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SWP's back said:
mammutly said:
Joycee Banercheck said:
Mut, could have been a lot worse. I think you try to be a c**t. You do a good job too.
I am merely expressing an opinion. If that makes me a ****, I'm OK with it.

The article the OP quoted drew a negative comparison between last year's transfer dealings and the business done in this window - with an explicit linking reference to Mancini's sacking.

Two points:

Mancini publically stated on several occasions that he was not happy with the transfer business last season. He didn't get the players he wanted and those he did get came too late. The comparison made in the article doesn't float if this fact is considered.

Secondly. The 4 players we have signed are as yet unproven in the Prem. Surely every fan of the club can recall many examples of players with big reputations who didn't deliver - Robinho, Corradi, Jo, Bridge, Berti etc. etc. The signings we have made may well turn out to be the new Silvas and Agueros, nobody hopes so more than me, but the article the OP quotes is making conclusions based on assumptions which are currently unproven.

The holistic revolution is a sea change, no doubt about that. We've moved squarely into the barca and juve model of football - the team on the pitch being the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It's exciting, it's challenging, it has massive potential. But, I will here the plaudits for Holism, transfers and Pellegrini being better than Mancini when we've actually tested that potential. At the moment it's just some hack saying it is.
Mancini didn't get RVP or Hazard

Pellegrini didn't get Cavani or Isco

Mancini sulked and had no fall back plans

See where I am going with this?

Yes. Waltzing away again into simple land - where flowers come in two colours, people in two types, and everything is easy to understand.
 

Fuzzmaster101

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Joined
3 Sep 2008
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1,734
I must have misunderstood the meaning of Holistic. I thought it was about a whole club ethos and not just about the first team. All anyone seems to be saying on here is about how our signings have been (or have not been) holistic this summer. We can't possibly discuss Pellegrini's holistic approach yet because he hasn't had time to show it. It's about the way the Academy and EDS work with the first team ethos and about bringing the EDS talent into the first team as and when necessary to blood them.

Mancini didn't do this enough and I assumed that was what the owners wanted to see more of. Maybe I'm wrong. I've been to see quite a few EDS games over the last two years and never saw Mancini at one of them. I may be wrong here and maybe he was there, but if he wasn't that is bad in my opinion. I don't care if he had people there for him (Obviously Lombardo, but I saw Kidd there too), it's not the same as watching for yourself. I remember Owen Coyle there when we played Bolton, and I've seen a few other managers there too, can't remember which now.

On another note I heard that in Spain they are going to have 12 subs on the bench, I'm not sure if this is true. This should be done here. You can still only use three substitutes but why shouldn't you be able to pick from a wider pool? The FA are always harping on about young talent not getting enough of a chance, these extra spaces can be used up by young players. Then if a game is being won easily you can bring on a couple of youngsters, however, if you are struggling and need to make a major change you haven't compromised your options by not having enough 1st team players on the bench.
 

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