The Holistic Approach

[Anonymous]

pellegrini didn't want cavani for that price, the board were still chasing him when mancini went because he was a mancini target.

pellegrini came in and told them not for that price and they stopped all interest.

mancini did bloody well for us in the years he was here but i feel we'd be even further a long if we had pellegrini from the start.

 

[hgblue]

And our poor stats would have been unaltered had we signed RVP and not United? RVPs signing by United had no effect on their performance because they scored less goals with RVP than they had without him the season before? Is this a serious argument?

We couldn't sign RVP. This is something which seems lost on you and a fair few others. He had no intention of coming to City once United showed their hand. It's really that simple and I'm not sure why it's so difficult to believe. Beyond that had we signed A N Other forward last summer to add to Balo, Tevez, Aguero, short of it being Messi/Ronaldo, nothing would've changed in terms of the way our season went. Our problems were more fundamental than simply not scoring enough.

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

 

[goalmole]

This season and last seasons financial constraints are probably very different.
We have freed up money on wages from RSC, Bridge, Tevez ,Balotelli, Maicon and Toure last year it was mainly Ade and Bellers of significance.

Mancini/Marwood also got in Nastasic and Rodwell so it was hardly a disaster the eason before the same team bought in Aguero, Nasri, Clichy and er Savic who except for the latter looked just as potentially influential as this lot.
We made a couple of mistakes last year but taken overall our business has looked pretty decent over all of the last three years to me.

Where it fucked up was that Mancini knew Balotelli wanted to leave but put everything into a difficult chase for Van Persie instead of just bringing in another striker & fucking him off.

I bet we could have signed some of these guys last season.

You may or may not be right about whether we could have signed these players or not, but even if we had signed them i doubt if Mancini would have used them properly. Look no farther than what happened to Sinclair.

 

[Deleted member 52846]

Not only has he acknowledged the stats, he has also gone on to explain to you how our poor stats were detrimental to us retaining the title, and the potential reasons for those poor stats...

I know, I have said the same. Are you sure you meant to quote me?

-- Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:31 am --

On rare occasions (Bergkamp, Yaya) Prem clubs do sign top names in their prime from top clubs, but not often at all. So I wouldn't hold my breath over them coming.

Yaya was not a top top name when he came, he had sat on the bench the season previous behind Busquets on the Barca bench and filled in a CB a number of times. The press here called him overpriced when he came if you remember.

And Berkamp had come off two poor seasons, scoring just 11 goals in that time. Berkamp made his name a Arsenal rather than before.

I'd actually forgotten about those situations. Suppose that cements my point even more. Have there ever been marquee signings made by a Premier League club from Europe? Someone bang in their prime, a proper big name?

There are not many clubs in the whole of Europe who sign marquee players. PSG and Monaco are a very rare case in signing Ibrahomovic and Falcao (who I consider the number 1 and 2 best strikers on the planet) instead of only Bayern München and Real Madrid signing those sort of players.

We would have to be in a special position to land a marquee signing.

 

[ManCitizens.]

And our poor stats would have been unaltered had we signed RVP and not United? RVPs signing by United had no effect on their performance because they scored less goals with RVP than they had without him the season before? Is this a serious argument?

We couldn't sign RVP. This is something which seems lost on you and a fair few others. He had no intention of coming to City once United showed their hand. It's really that simple and I'm not sure why it's so difficult to believe. Beyond that had we signed A N Other forward last summer to add to Balo, Tevez, Aguero, short of it being Messi/Ronaldo, nothing would've changed in terms of the way our season went. Our problems were more fundamental than simply not scoring enough.

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

We couldn't sign RVP. This is something which seems lost on you and a fair few others. He had no intention of coming to City once United showed their hand. It's really that simple and I'm not sure why it's so difficult to believe. Beyond that had we signed A N Other forward last summer to add to Balo, Tevez, Aguero, short of it being Messi/Ronaldo, nothing would've changed in terms of the way our season went. Our problems were more fundamental than simply not scoring enough.

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

 

[goalmole]

We couldn't sign RVP. This is something which seems lost on you and a fair few others. He had no intention of coming to City once United showed their hand. It's really that simple and I'm not sure why it's so difficult to believe. Beyond that had we signed A N Other forward last summer to add to Balo, Tevez, Aguero, short of it being Messi/Ronaldo, nothing would've changed in terms of the way our season went. Our problems were more fundamental than simply not scoring enough.

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

It's about buying round pegs for round holes and not about buying the latest flavour of the month.

 

[hgblue]

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

I'm sure Munich are trying to sign Lewandowski?

 

[SWP's back]

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

I'm sure Munich are trying to sign Lewandowski?

For a knock down fee from their closest challengers having already sold a striker.

 

[meeesh]

Cock

 

[FantasyIreland]

Cock

Is that a request?

 

[City_Sean]

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

weve signed a fairly marquee signing in one of the best wingers on the planet

 

[ManCitizens.]

I dispute whether we had a realistic chance of signing RVP but that is irrelevant to the argument I'm making. His signing by United was pivotal in the title race, and if you disagree with that then you don't understand the effect his signing had on their season. Since then we've sold Balo and Tevez leaving a hole in the squad and wagebill which would have allowed for the signing of a 'star' striker. Ibra, Cavani, Falcoa, Higuian, Rooney, Suarez, lewandowski, take your pick. Instead, we've signed Negredo. I'm not a fan (and yes I have seen plenty of him). You're argument is that we'll play with one up front and a 'star' signing would expect to play. Mine is that we can play with two up top in most games (Aguero and Suarez would be an amazing front two), or we could rest Aguero because they'll be plenty of games to go around leaving him fresh when he's needed, and the advantage would be that we'd have a top quality striker in place should (heaven forbid) Aguero get injured. I'm comfortable with the logic of my argument.

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

Martinez wasn't a marquee signing. He was at a fairly similar level to Jovetic albeit in a different position.<br /><br />-- Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:08 pm --<br /><br />

Bayern Munich bought Mandzukic instead of going for one of those marquee signings last season. Guess what they won?

They also bought a fairly marquee signing in the form of the best defensive midfielder on the planet but you know

I'm sure Munich are trying to sign Lewandowski?

How about a bet with the winnings going to charity? When/ If Lewandowski goes to Bayern (this season or next), I bet you that Bayern don't have a better season compared to last year during Mandzukic's first year at the club.

 

[TGR]

This season and last seasons financial constraints are probably very different.
We have freed up money on wages from RSC, Bridge, Tevez ,Balotelli, Maicon and Toure last year it was mainly Ade and Bellers of significance.

Mancini/Marwood also got in Nastasic and Rodwell so it was hardly a disaster the eason before the same team bought in Aguero, Nasri, Clichy and er Savic who except for the latter looked just as potentially influential as this lot.
We made a couple of mistakes last year but taken overall our business has looked pretty decent over all of the last three years to me.

Where it fucked up was that Mancini knew Balotelli wanted to leave but put everything into a difficult chase for Van Persie instead of just bringing in another striker & fucking him off.

I bet we could have signed some of these guys last season.

You may or may not be right about whether we could have signed these players or not, but even if we had signed them i doubt if Mancini would have used them properly. Look no farther than what happened to Sinclair.

Give it a rest! Sinclair is never a top 4 club player in a million years. Mancini didn't fancy him thats for sure but very simply he is not good enough for where we are now. He'll do fine at West Brom, Everton, Villa and maybe back at Swansea. Also on the few occasions he did get on the park he hardly ripped the place up did he? Unfortunately for Sinclair he was the wrong player for us at the wrong time. Don't blame Mancini for that blame Marwood.

 

[goalmole]

Where it fucked up was that Mancini knew Balotelli wanted to leave but put everything into a difficult chase for Van Persie instead of just bringing in another striker & fucking him off.

I bet we could have signed some of these guys last season.

You may or may not be right about whether we could have signed these players or not, but even if we had signed them i doubt if Mancini would have used them properly. Look no farther than what happened to Sinclair.

Give it a rest! Sinclair is never a top 4 club player in a million years. Mancini didn't fancy him thats for sure but very simply he is not good enough for where we are now. He'll do fine at West Brom, Everton, Villa and maybe back at Swansea. Also on the few occasions he did get on the park he hardly ripped the place up did he? Unfortunately for Sinclair he was the wrong player for us at the wrong time. Don't blame Mancini for that blame Marwood.

Sincere question. Why buy a player who isn't good enough for our level and how do we know who authorised the purchase.

 

[hgblue]

You may or may not be right about whether we could have signed these players or not, but even if we had signed them i doubt if Mancini would have used them properly. Look no farther than what happened to Sinclair.

Give it a rest! Sinclair is never a top 4 club player in a million years. Mancini didn't fancy him thats for sure but very simply he is not good enough for where we are now. He'll do fine at West Brom, Everton, Villa and maybe back at Swansea. Also on the few occasions he did get on the park he hardly ripped the place up did he? Unfortunately for Sinclair he was the wrong player for us at the wrong time. Don't blame Mancini for that blame Marwood.

Sincere question. Why buy a player who isn't good enough for our level and how do we know who authorised the purchase.

This is what makes me laugh about the 'don't question transfer policy' merchants. It was obvious that Sinclair wasn't good enough.

 

[Mr. Aguia]

Will you just shut up?

I always love these reasoned ripostes.

What it shows is that you can work WITH the suits, and improve the squad without throwing all your eggs in one basket & embarking on a power struggle to the detriment of the club.

Mancini was obnoxious this time last year, his behaviour was childish & petulant. If he had been willing to look at the kind of players we have signed in this window, we would have probably won the league.

If Mancini was still here, we would be involved in a tug of war with PSG now for Cavani & eventually lose, then he'd spit his dummy out again instead of moving for other options.

No way were Van Persie & Hazard the only attacking players we could have used. But he then asks for centre mids instead ? Sulking.

While I agree with you in principal I think it's important to take into consideration the amount of pressure mancini was under. Winning the title and getting his contract extended may have pushed the fact that he was nearly fired. If the rags hadn't choked the title away he would not have been our manager last season. Clearly his position was not as strong as the usual manager who won the title would be. He knew if he didn't progress in the CL he'd be in trouble. And if he "failed" in the CL he had better win the league or he'd lose his job. He saw the rags sign the player he wanted most. He saw chelsea sign a lot of quality. The season was looming and we hadn't signed anyone and perhaps in his mind he was being set up to fail to get rid of him because he didn't get along with anyone at the club. Not that I agree with that but it does seem that's what he thinks and would explain why he went off the rails.

 

[jrb]

I just wanted to remind myself(and everyonr else) of the holistic approach.

Is it still working?

 

[BillyShears]

I just wanted to remind myself(and everyonr else) of the holistic approach.

Is it still working?

Genuine question.

Going through all the dissatisfaction across the forum seems there's a lot of very bitter and very angry people who have a lot to say. I'm curious and I've asked it before - but why is no one having a go at Sheikh Mansour? Genuinely. I'm not taking the piss at all. He's the boss, he decides all this shit. Pellegrini not sacked. Sheikh decides. 'Holistic' approach. Sheikh decides. Give Txiki a job. Sheikh decides. Pretty much every single complaint goes all the way back to the owner.

Now in the old days I remember nobody was shy about shouting "sack the board". Our history is littered with boards that needed sacking. So why aren't we sacking the current board - along with the current owner?

That's the logical end point for all those who want people sacked or who question the club's direction so fundamentally.

 

[domalino]

Genuine question.

Going through all the dissatisfaction across the forum seems there's a lot of very bitter and very angry people who have a lot to say. I'm curious and I've asked it before - but why is no one having a go at Sheikh Mansour? Genuinely. I'm not taking the piss at all. He's the boss, he decides all this shit. Pellegrini not sacked. Sheikh decides. 'Holistic' approach. Sheikh decides. Give Txiki a job. Sheikh decides. Pretty much every single complaint goes all the way back to the owner.

Now in the old days I remember nobody was shy about shouting "sack the board". Our history is littered with boards that needed sacking. So why aren't we sacking the current board - along with the current owner?

That's the logical end point for all those who want people sacked or who question the club's direction so fundamentally.

I don't think anyone is questioning the club's direction fundamentally, simply getting frustrated at hitting rough patches on the way.

99% of complaints are about the manager down, everyone above that is doing their jobs perfectly.