The Independent Group

[Len Rum]

If Jews were lined up on the ramps at Auschwitz being told to go left for the gas chambers, you and your ilk would still be claiming that it's not antisemitism, they're just Blairites.

This last paragraph of your reply to @The perfect fumble makes his point for him - that you have lost any objectivity and perspective on this subject.

 

[Chris in London]

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The financial crisis wasn't just a visited upon the UK. It was (as were lots of other countries) utterly complicit. Look no futher than the housing market and it's unrecovery for evidence of same. Austerity, being that which should have put the country back on the straight and narrow may well have been hijacked to reduce wages etc, but the real crime in the financial crisis for the UK was the propping up of the housing market and the banks. Help-to-Buy is a national disgrace which is utterly unremovable and will continue to be so until the arse really does fall out of the housing market, government intervention or not. Regarding the EU, thank fuck we had and still do have, control of our interest rates.

Of course it was visited upon the UK. We didn't fucking vote for it did we?

 

[urban genie]

This last paragraph of your reply to @The perfect fumble makes his point for him - that you have lost any objectivity and perspective on this subject.

Watch the Mann interview I have posted, he states he has been fighting elements of anti-semetism in the party for 15 years and this isn't a new corbyn specific issue, though it is true corbyns let people and commitees deal with it rather than him going headstrongly into it and sorting it personally is an error on his part.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

This last paragraph of your reply to @The perfect fumble makes his point for him - that you have lost any objectivity and perspective on this subject.

As a Jew of course I'm not objective but as a member of the Corbyn cult, neither is he. I've a damn sight more perspective than he has though.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Yes brexit is a shit storm, and I as one who voted remain am not blinkered enough to think it won't happen as it will.

So what do you see post brexit this lot offering?
Offering to ask us to rejoin? It will take a while, the EU will make us suffer and we will be made to accept things we have had preserved while a member not joining euro, special vetos etc).
A new shinny new political ideology to takenus forward?
Up to now every commemt has been whats negative about now and when pressed on what they have to offer policy wise just grin and give the vacuous soundbites of the last few years, they have nothing but a failed defuct, bland outlook, nothing fresh, or even coherent.

Yes the 2 main parties are frustratinf and god awful atm, but I see nothing from these westmister careerist production line politicians to inspire anything.

I would love if May turned round extended Art 50 and then her and corbyn come to a real compromise or just fuck the referendum off, sadly neither looks like happening, but this lot offer me nothing to hipe for in a post brexit Britain.

Would be better to have a fucking revolution at this rate and jail the lot in the tower ;-)

Policy can follow from this point. Brexit and the culture within the two main parties are rightly enough of a reason to leave them. The politics of moderate tories and labour MPs are far closer than the political spectrum within the two main parties. How comfortably does Ken Clarke sit a few feet from people like Mogg, Chope and Paterson.

In time they will have to form policy and it will be centrist stuff, boring maybe but you could say the same about Blair and he did ok in the polls. People don't get excited about sensible moderate views, but lurch to the extremes and what you get is teh ERG or the Corbyn cult or even worse UKIP which is now a full on racist party.

People are sick of polarized two party politics.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Apart from the 673 members investigated over antisemitism since April last year, of which the majority are either still under investigation or have had some action taken against them.

And when I said people doubted these figures, let's remember these only date back to April 2018. Jennie Formby said she couldn't provide figures prior to that as the process to record them wasn't in place. Yet her predecessor said that wasn't true. Margaret Hodge has also reported over 200 cases alone. Formby has had an absolute battering over this from the PLP yet has basically told them to mind their own business as she doesn't report to them.

Now you'd think, if Corbyn was genuinely concerned about even a small percentage of his members being proven to be antisemitic, he'd be publicly supporting people like Luciana Berger (who is Manny Shinwell's great niece) and screaming "Not in my name" at every available opportunity. Yet he's completely distanced himself from her, never once appearing on a platform with her, or the others affected. He's failed to tell McCluskey to keep his stupid, big mouth shut. His little stormtroopers like Williamson are still doing what they've done for a while. The Jewish chair of Young Labour is having to publicly distance herself from tweets put out from one of her executive (who's also on the NEC).

Even worse, there was a tweet or quote from the head of the JLC saying he's been told, off the record, by a senior Labour Party official that the leadership weren't bothered about the accusations and in fact even welcomed them as it played well with a significant part of the electorate. I'll try and find it for you.

If Jews were lined up on the ramps at Auschwitz being told to go left for the gas chambers, you and your ilk would still be claiming that it's not antisemitism, they're just Blairites.

In order to frame a completely erroneous argument it is important to set the boundaries of what is and what is not acceptable discourse, never address your adversary directly, never veer anywhere near the point and pepper your "argument" with highly charged but completely irrelevant words and phrases.

So what do we have here on the question of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party?

Blimey! It's nearly the full set...

Auschwitz

stormtroopers

gas chambers

The working definition of anti-Semitism drawn up by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, contains the following....

"Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust."

While that does not state that accusing Jewish people of using the holocaust as a political tool is anti-Semitic in itself, I've seen that viewpoint used as an anti-Semitic indicator in a number of social attitude polls. So accusing a Jewish person of doing that might be considered anti-Semitic.

So I won't.

What I find particularly depressing about you is that you're not an idiot and yet you feel perfectly relaxed to use references to Auschwitz, storm troopers and gas chambers in reference to the Labour Party and, more depressing still, you are happy to end your post thus....

If Jews were lined up on the ramps at Auschwitz being told to go left for the gas chambers, you and your ilk would still be claiming that it's not antisemitism, they're just Blairites.

"you and your ilk?"

Imagine how your head would explode if I were to refer to you as "you and your ilk?"

I never would refer to you in such a way, not because I self censor or lie, but because I don't feel that way and never have and neither do the rest of my "ilk"

 

[Armchair Supporter]

Of course it was visited upon the UK. We didn't fucking vote for it did we?

Yes we did actually.
Voting for endless greed and debt and spending and financial abandon.
The country was nuts in 2008. Everyone had posh car, a mortgage and a investment.
The government were not in a mind to reign that in, so when the flood did come, we drowned.

It is the oldest story in the book. Whilst others were buiding Ark's, or not burning all the wood in the forest so they could build one, the UK was having a massive bonfire fueled party.

Same for Ireland.

Honestly, i sometimes wonder why grown men think the principles of running a country are significantly different than running a country. Spend a little, save a little, work a little, play a little and you will be Ok when the troubles come.

 

[2sheikhs]

Thanks for posting that, very interesting. I don't agree with all of it but you can't argue with 80% of it.

As i have said what this group will do is ramp up the pressure on the two leaders who are ignoring the moderate base within their parties. In this clip it's open season on Corbyn, getting hammered of his own MP. What does he suggest - a free vote on brexit. Softening the stance. That is what is happening here, massive pressure on Corbyn and May to reach out to the middle ground. I keep saying it - something has to give.

I'd rather the tories and labour (as it is now) not bother reaching out to the middle ground. This has been the problem as far as I'm concerned. We all know that what they'd be saying is a lie.
Both parties have a major pr problem. They're seen by most as hopelessly split

 

[Chris in London]

Yes we did actually.
Voting for endless greed and debt and spending and financial abandon.
The country was nuts in 2008. Everyone had posh car, a mortgage and a investment.
The government were not in a mind to reign that in, so when the flood did come, we drowned.

It is the oldest story in the book. Whilst others were buiding Ark's, or not burning all the wood in the forest so they could build one, the UK was having a massive bonfire fueled party.

Same for Ireland.

Honestly, i sometimes wonder why grown men think the principles of running a country are significantly different than running a country. Spend a little, save a little, work a little, play a little and you will be Ok when the troubles come.

You might want to amend that last paragraph so that it makes sense

the rest of it will take a lot more than that.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

You might want to amend that last paragraph so that it makes sense

the rest of it will take a lot more than that.

Oh, hark at her!

You know damn well what i meant.