The Independent Group

[blueparrot]

If that was the case why is Soubry banging the drum to circumvent the referendum result going against her leave ward?

Because she believes Brexit will be bad for the country and her constituents. That's what mps are supposed to do.

 

[Chris in London]

Interesting if he really meant the last fifteen years because that would be going back into the era of phoney Tony and Gordon Brown. So I wonder if in his ( Mann's) view anti semitism was allegedly more or less prevalent in the party back in that time and/or did the respective Labour administration sort it out better than the current one?
Or maybe the media couldn't be arsed reporting it because there was no need for anti Labour agenda then.

When I have encountered anti-Semitism amongst left-wing people it has largely been a product of ignorant people holding a general (and permissible) disapproval of Israel and its policies as regards Palestine in particular, and lurching from that to a wider (and impermissible) opinion that jewish people and the Israeli government are interchangeable and that valid criticism of one is morally equivalent to invalid criticisms of the other.

My own thoughts, for what they are worth, are that Jeremy Corbyn's own personal stance on Israel and Palestine has had two effects: first, he is surrounded by those who do harbour anti-jewish sentiments that are in fact born our of anti Israeli sentiments, and they have moved to positions of power and prominence within the labour party as he has done; secondly, the general anti Israel rhetoric voiced by many who are close to Corbyn and are sympathetic to the palestinian cause emboldens many to give voice to their latent anti-Semitism.

I certainly do not believe that anti Semitism was as prevalent in the labour party until Corbyn became leader, not least because I think Ed Milliband (and Blair and Brown before him) would have had no truck with it.

What appals me is the seeming unwillingness of the current labour leadership to tackle anything as vile as racism - for make no mistake, that is what anti-Semitism is.

 

[happyman]

ERG? I don't think Rees-Mogg and his ilk have the bottle to leave the safety of the Tories TBH

It wouldn't need them it'd just need money, the big hitters in the Labour party or the Tories haven't joined this shower yet.

 

[Armchair Supporter]

If that was the case why is Soubry banging the drum to circumvent the referendum result going against her leave ward?

A fucking good question.

 

[blueparrot]

It wouldn't need them it'd just need money, the big hitters in the Labour party or the Tories haven't joined this shower yet.

Who ?

 

[happyman]

Because she believes Brexit will be bad for the country and her constituents. That's what mps are supposed to do.

So stop saying she's serving her constituents, she's serving her own aims regardless of how they voted.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

When I have encountered anti-Semitism amongst left-wing people it has largely been a product of ignorant people holding a general (and permissible) disapproval of Israel and its policies as regards Palestine in particular, and lurching from that to a wider (and impermissible) opinion that jewish people and the Israeli government are interchangeable and that valid criticism of one is morally equivalent to invalid criticisms of the other.

My own thoughts, for what they are worth, are that Jeremy Corbyn's own personal stance on Israel and Palestine has had two effects: first, he is surrounded by those who do harbour anti-jewish sentiments that are in fact born our of anti Israeli sentiments, and they have moved to positions of power and prominence within the labour party as he has done; secondly, the general anti Israel rhetoric voiced by many who are close to Corbyn and are sympathetic to the palestinian cause emboldens many to give voice to their latent anti-Semitism.

I certainly do not believe that anti Semitism was as prevalent in the labour party until Corbyn became leader, not least because I think Ed Milliband (and Blair and Brown before him) would have had no truck with it.

What appals me is the seeming unwillingness of the current labour leadership to tackle anything as vile as racism - for make no mistake, that is what anti-Semitism is.

I'd fully expect a mind as incisive as yours to succintly sum up the issue and you have done. Spot on.

 

[happyman]

Who ?

Who do you think? All it takes is for a bunch of like-minded people to start a company that's exempt from fund raising limitations slap a few candidates in on the next GE and we can re-run the referendum on a snap GE.

 

[blueparrot]

So stop saying she's serving her constituents, she's serving her own aims regardless of how they voted.

By serve I assume you mean bidding. It's not how our system works or has ever worked.

 

[Chris in London]

People keep mentioning middle it's nothing of the sort, it's an anti-Brexit party in the making. Cue a pro Brexit party and I mean a real one springing up in genuine opposition.

brexit represents a fault-line that cuts completely across the traditional left/right wing divide. What exacerbates it is that within the Brexit camp there are different views on what brexit actually means. The prime minister says brexit means brexit, which is true, but it doesn't mean anything more than that and therein lies the problem.

You already have two pro-brexit parties: one is called the labour party and the other is called the Conservative party.

I assume you dismiss UKIP for the same reasons I do. That's why I don't see a new pro-Brexit party springing up. There is no political vacuum for it to fill, and neither the tories nor labour would willingly want (for the most part) to be associated with UKIP or anything like it.