bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
particularly that which has been going on for 30-40 years. I wonder why the academic and the press didn't raise the issue when Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown and Milliband were leading?
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particularly that which has been going on for 30-40 years. I wonder why the academic and the press didn't raise the issue when Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown and Milliband were leading?
particularly that which has been going on for 30-40 years. I wonder why the academic and the press didn't raise the issue when Kinnock, Smith, Blair, Brown and Milliband were leading?
Because it isn’t as big as an issue as it is with the far-left.
There’s no way Blair would have acted so weak towards it, as Corbyn has.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Because it isn’t as big as an issue as it is with the far-left.
There’s no way Blair would have acted so weak towards it, as Corbyn has.
Firstly I am not excusing anti-semitism in any way. However David Hirsch hasn't said that fighting it in his student years was easier than now because its worse now - he has said that he has fought it all his time in the Labour party which is to be deplored but its a long standing issue that is highlighted now for some reason - do you have proof that its worse now than it was in say 1980? I mean if its a trait of the strong left why wasn't it a huge issue under Militant in Liverpool?
Firstly I am not excusing anti-semitism in any way. However David Hirsch hasn't said that fighting it in his student years was easier than now because its worse now - he has said that he has fought it all his time in the Labour party which is to be deplored but its a long standing issue that is highlighted now for some reason - do you have proof that its worse now than it was in say 1980? I mean if its a trait of the strong left why wasn't it a huge issue under Militant in Liverpool?
Because as ever with ideologies, things sway in different ways at different times.
Historically the far-right have been antisemitic, now they’re anti-Muslim.
What I’m trying to say is extreme ideologies aren’t always bad in the same way, all the time. There’s not necessarily a consistency to the scapegoat.
Antisemitism may have been there under Blair and Smith and Kinnock etc. however these things can catch fire under certain movements and Corbyn’s opposition to Israel (I don’t like Israel’s behaviour at all by the way but Corbyn takes it far beyond that, I support its right to exist and be a safe home for the Jewish people), his extreme opposition to business and banking and his reluctance to budge on any policy or principle, has enticed his followers to go down this path.
I wrote on here about a year ago, when the first major complaints were coming through, that what the far-left and far-right have in common is a more extreme sense of there being a financial/banking elite that is screwing over the everyday person in a conspiracy. Linking this to Jews is a very very short step up the ladder of hatred and it’s one that is made every so often by both sides of the spectrum.
Now you and I probably both think there’s a group of rich people with too much influence who are only looking after themselves but we don’t view this as a conspiracy - it’s just general financial inequality that good government policy can fix through tax and clamping down on tax avoidance.
The extreme political positions think it’s a coordinated conspiracy and as I say, you’re only one step away then from mentioning Rothschilds (being an example) and you’re away into dark territory.
Hirsch may have experienced this throughout his Labour career with different factions in the party but probably felt that if he needed them, the senior figures in the party would have his and other Jew’s backs. He obviously no longer thinks this is the case.
My evidence for claiming it’s worse now is what people are saying from within the party. You have members of 40+ years quitting citing this. A Jewish MP bullied out of the party by her constituency and other trolls. The Labour Party has never had such a major PR problem, not even close, when it comes to racism. Even if half of it isn’t true, it’s still a major issue. Others saying they no longer feel safe and the leadership either ignoring it or playing it down. Len McCluskey - obviously a big figure of Leftist Britain now - has said Berger and others have contrived this.
That is appalling rhetoric.
I am a traditional Labour supporter and was Socialist when I first got into politics, I’m not just some Tory looking to stick the boot in. I was actually waiting for Corbyn to back another Brexit vote and he was about to get my vote, I actually liked many aspects of his manifesto, despite thinking the financials were a little optimistic but other than Brexit - I don’t have a major policy argument.
I genuinely believe he’s been complicit in the purposeful ignorance of racism in his party and he’s gambling the country away with his Brexit stance.
That’s why I can no longer vote Labour until there’s a change and to be honest a break up of both major parties will be a breath of fresh air.
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blueinsa
Guest
The apologists on this forum should hang their heads in shame.
TCIB
Well-Known Member
tl;dr Sith Corbyn :-DBecause as ever with ideologies, things sway in different ways at different times.
Historically the far-right have been antisemitic, now they’re anti-Muslim.
What I’m trying to say is extreme ideologies aren’t always bad in the same way, all the time. There’s not necessarily a consistency to the scapegoat.
Antisemitism may have been there under Blair and Smith and Kinnock etc. however these things can catch fire under certain movements and Corbyn’s opposition to Israel (I don’t like Israel’s behaviour at all by the way but Corbyn takes it far beyond that, I support its right to exist and be a safe home for the Jewish people), his extreme opposition to business and banking and his reluctance to budge on any policy or principle, has enticed his followers to go down this path.
I wrote on here about a year ago, when the first major complaints were coming through, that what the far-left and far-right have in common is a more extreme sense of there being a financial/banking elite that is screwing over the everyday person in a conspiracy. Linking this to Jews is a very very short step up the ladder of hatred and it’s one that is made every so often by both sides of the spectrum.
Now you and I probably both think there’s a group of rich people with too much influence who are only looking after themselves but we don’t view this as a conspiracy - it’s just general financial inequality that good government policy can fix through tax and clamping down on tax avoidance.
The extreme political positions think it’s a coordinated conspiracy and as I say, you’re only one step away then from mentioning Rothschilds (being an example) and you’re away into dark territory.
Hirsch may have experienced this throughout his Labour career with different factions in the party but probably felt that if he needed them, the senior figures in the party would have his and other Jew’s backs. He obviously no longer thinks this is the case.
My evidence for claiming it’s worse now is what people are saying from within the party. You have members of 40+ years quitting citing this. A Jewish MP bullied out of the party by her constituency and other trolls. The Labour Party has never had such a major PR problem, not even close, when it comes to racism. Even if half of it isn’t true, it’s still a major issue. Others saying they no longer feel safe and the leadership either ignoring it or playing it down. Len McCluskey - obviously a big figure of Leftist Britain now - has said Berger and others have contrived this.
That is appalling rhetoric.
I am a traditional Labour supporter and was Socialist when I first got into politics, I’m not just some Tory looking to stick the boot in. I was actually waiting for Corbyn to back another Brexit vote and he was about to get my vote, I actually liked many aspects of his manifesto, despite thinking the financials were a little optimistic but other than Brexit - I don’t have a major policy argument.
I genuinely believe he’s been complicit in the purposeful ignorance of racism in his party and he’s gambling the country away with his Brexit stance.
That’s why I can no longer vote Labour until there’s a change and to be honest a break up of both major parties will be a breath of fresh air.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Bluesince1979
Well-Known Member
When are they all announcing the date for a by-election then ?
tl;dr Sith Corbyn :-D
He’s worse than that
jay_mcfc
Well-Known Member
When are they all announcing the date for a by-election then ?
This.
Driving me mad how they can all come out to the press, Ian Austin the latest, slating the Labour party and Corbyn yet they still stand on his manifesto (at this time) and all too shit scared to call a by-election. Absolute cowards of the highest order that will do nothing but hand the Tories power for the forseeable. They should allow their constituents to let them know what they think. If this happened with my MP I'd be absolutely furious.