The Labour Government

[blueparrot]

In a sense it is easy to blame the Tories for this. And sure, had the Tories not called a referendum, we'd have never had one and we'd still been in the EU. But they did, and the country DID vote to leave.

So do you think it a defensible position for a government to deny a referendum for fear the public might vote the wrong way? Seems a bit dubious me that does.

And regards your 2nd paragraph about crashing the economy, yes, I missed that bit as well. I seem to remember something about a new virus sweeping the globe and a war somewhere. I am not sure Liz Truss can be blamed for that, especially when the BoE is now accepting blame for fucking up the bond market, not Truss.

Yes the country voted to leave, didn't vote for a scorched earth burn every bridge leave though did it. Liz Truss ,who you supported did nothing to the economy.Who are you trying to kid,yourself?

 

[Brewster's millions]

I think thats a question you should put to the IFS as its their conclusion and I am sure you are far more qualified than anyone there any way

Your comment was as follows; “There's £7.6bn found today”.

As @metalblue has already highlighted, it wasn’t “found today” as the overspend on asylum has already been incorporated into the Treasury’s spurious analysis behind the fabled £22bn black hole. You’ve also quoted the cumulative figure over the period in question rather than the annual rate, which is of course the relevant measure for the current debate.

In fact the IFS suggest that an additional £4bn of expenditure would be required for asylum this year, whereas the Treasury have assumed £6.4bn. So if you’re so confident in the IFS analysis, it must surely disappoint you a touch that it only accounts for £4bn of the Treasury’s £22bn figure.

The £18bn gap of course relates in very large part to government’s own decision on public sector pay, and the difference in cost between what the previous government had assumed on this matter, and what Labour intended to spend, which would have been known to Reeves before the election.

 

[lazerblue]

There's £7.6bn found today

Home Office criticised for billions of asylum overspending

The Home Office is criticised for submitting spending estimates on asylum it "knows to be insufficient".

www.bbc.co.uk

Over the last three years, the department's initial estimated budgets for asylum, border, visa and passport operations amounted to £320m.
fuck me, who did the reckoning up, Diane Abbott ;-)

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Mad in here, absolutely mad. Seems the Tories didn’t fuck every facet of the UK up and those schools, hospitals and other vital means aren’t really in need of attention.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I don't want to get in to a debate about the economy but I think we would all agree it was crappy before the pandemic. Not only that, public services are in a perilous state out of part-spite, part-ideology.

I think we can all agree on that. We will probably disagree about the causes and remedies though.

There's some structural issues in the UK - like our piss poor productivity - which no government has really addressed in the past 30 years at least. People keep saying we are rich country and can afford x, y or z and yes, compared to Sierra Leone of course we are. But we have been slipping down the rich list for a long time. We have no god-given right to be better off than people in say the Netherlands. If successive governments keep making crap decisions - as both governments have done for decades - then this is the situation we find ourselves in.

Unfortunately I am convinced that Labour do not have the answer and in fact, in time, will make it even worse. For a short period whilst they overspend vs what we can afford, it may seem like things are on the right track as e.g. hospital waiting lists come down, as I expect they will. But IMO, over time, the wheels will fall off as they always do because again IMO their policies are fundamentally wrong. They talk about growth being the top priority, but none of the actions they look like taking will do anything but hinder it, quite the opposite in fact as they burden employers more and more and remove people's spending power by increase their taxes. It never, ever works in the long run.

Hopefully Starmer's lot will be better but I am not seeing any signs of it.

 

[hampshireblue]

Because that’s what Labour do. You work hard all your life, do OK and the lefties want to take what little nest egg you have off you so they can piss it away on welfare and benefits scroungers. To them any inherited wealth is evil. It’s envy, jealousy and spite. Nothing more.

So, which part of the benefits system would you dismantle and reform first? Don't go down the illegals route because this issue has been around for years. Let's not forget that 40% of those on UC are actually in work. Off you go...

 

[Bluemanc100]

He will make deals with every eu governments. We will be back in but not officially!

We should have never ever come out!

You have to abide by a vote by the people though or what is democracy?

Agreed....

 

[Didsbury Dave]

In a sense it is easy to blame the Tories for this. And sure, had the Tories not called a referendum, we'd have never had one and we'd still been in the EU. But they did, and the country DID vote to leave.

So do you think it a defensible position for a government to deny a referendum for fear the public might vote the wrong way? Seems a bit dubious me that does.

And regards your 2nd paragraph about crashing the economy, yes, I missed that bit as well. I seem to remember something about a new virus sweeping the globe and a war somewhere. I am not sure Liz Truss can be blamed for that, especially when the BoE is now accepting blame for fucking up the bond market, not Truss.

Yes, it is easy to blame the tories for this because they fucking did it. And it's pretty easy to blame Liz Truss for crashing the economy because she fucking did that as well.

The point you ignored is that both of those two things had more impact on the economy and society that any of your "mitigations".

 

[Phil1]

Mad in here, absolutely mad. Seems the Tories didn’t fuck every facet of the UK up and those schools, hospitals and other vital means aren’t really in need of attention.

It’s perfectly predictable so far.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes, it is easy to blame the tories for this because they fucking did it. And it's pretty easy to blame Liz Truss for crashing the economy because she fucking did that as well.

The point you ignored is that both of those two things had more impact on the economy and society that any of your "mitigations".

So in your mind, willfully doing what the public do not want is OK for any government? Let's leave it there, I am sure we are not going to agree on this.

Regards your 2nd paragraph, the impact of Brexit being greater than the loss to the economy from e.g. COVID, I would say is very debatable. The 2nd part about Truss is just complete nonsense, pure and simple. It's not even certain that the bond market crash was actually her fault, but even if it was, the impact in the scheme of things is trivial at most. Inflation rates were high and rising anway. World-wide inflation rates were shooting up, and yes if we accept that Truss messed up then she made it marginally worse. But to say that her actions had a bigger impact on the economy than COVID is just incorrect. All too easy for critics to blame her when in fact there were far bigger forces at play.