The Labour Government

[mackenzie]

its also likely given your description Geoff's farm would have a zero IHT liability

Probably.
Ex took care of it all when Geoff died, and we ended up splitting up not long after.

It's just that I don't want people to look at a farm and think "oh, they must be rich..."
Quite often they are far from it

 

[bluethrunthru]

The facts show this is a fair tax so far. It's is only 20 per cent rather than 40 per cent for non farmers like everyone else.

The advocates for farming appears to be Clarkson, Farage, Lowe, Kuntie Plopkins and just seen on TV the woeful Victoria Atkins MP then if there is a fight farming has turned up to a shootout armed with a plastic knife from a Wimpey Bar

 

[stonerblue]

I don't really have an informed decision on all this farmer issue, but I do know that many are skint.
My ex husband's bachelor Uncle was a farmer. Worked every single day of his life from taking over the farm in 1964 until his death (aged 82) in 2009. Never had a days holiday in that time, ever.
The farmhouse was falling down around him in the last few years and my ex went every weekend (from about 1988) to help him with the heavier stuff around the farm.
Geoff loved that farm, to the point that when he was on the point of death at Rochdale Infirmary (prostate cancer) he insisted on going "home."
We got him there and he died within 10 mins. Even now it upsets me to remember it.

I think I'm just saying that not all farmers are cash rich.

Sounds like he had a happy life though.

 

[mackenzie]

Sounds like he had a happy life though.

He certainly did ;-)
And that's all that matters really isn't it.

He wasnt "born" to it, he went into farming in his 30s. Yet he loved every minute.

He ran a pork and beef farm initially, but eventually couldn't stand sending the pigs for slaughter. Said the piglets were as adorable and loyal as puppies and he hated sending them. So he concentrated on beef after that.

 

[bluethrunthru]

if the ability to pass on farms from generation to generation is what makes farming work then where has all the land these big tax dodgers bought come from? Was Mark Twain wrong?

 

[Vic]

The governments own figures show return on investment (ie value of assets employed) at 0.5% so a farm with £1m worth of land provides a profit (after all costs, salaries etc) of £5k.

Link here https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...-statistics-notice#return-on-capital-employed

Now that’s quite technical so a better view is provided here https://rural.struttandparker.com/w...rable-profitability-forecasts_Winter23_24.pdf

Here we’re looking at around £250 profit per hectare planted - if the average farm is 80 hectares thats about £20k income the farmer has to live on (they won’t have housing costs or probity even utilities to pay out of that) but it’s not a kings ransom and if you have to start trying to pay a mortgage to cover IHT it’s not going to be viable.

Farmers aren’t wealthy nor are they on the arses - but they are a lot nearer being on their arses. I also get that it’s used as a tax fiddle by some - distinguish working farms is probably not easy either.

I may be missing something here. If these figures are "after all costs, salaries etc", is it not rather important to know what the farmer is paying in salaries (including to family members) and whether costs include (e.g.) a new Land Rover?

 

[metalblue]

Farmers where an endangered species back in 2016 for them.

These days they’re seemingly the enemy.

I keep hearing the phrase “rich farmers” which is a bit of a major giveaway for our class warriors I’m afraid.

Seems to not be a lot of love or sympathy for farmers in here.

 

[BobKowalski]

Not sure how else to put it really. Its is an established fact that farmers are asset rich and cash poor. The issue is how they afford to pay IHT - and here they are likely facing one choice - sell some of the asset.

Now if the government said they’d bring in something like the milk marketing board (for milk and food) and/or increase tariffs on imported food then we’d be getting somewhere. Farmers would see an increase in earnings - which we’d pay for at the supermarket - and might be able to afford to mortgage to pay the IHT.

I am sure the Govt will be delighted to impose tariffs on food and increase food prices on UK consumers given we have been putting off imposing Brexit import controls for the last few years. Yet another issue Labour will eventually have to confront thanks to our own stupidity.

If you exempt more farmers by increasing the threshold then they won’t have to pay the tax. That said, how many farmers will be paying the tax under the current proposed threshold is now a propaganda war and is more about attacking the Govt than concern for farmers - see the fishing industry as an example.

Bottom line. We need to raise money and taxes. Farmers, like the rest of us, will have to suck it up and chip in.

 

[metalblue]

if the ability to pass on farms from generation to generation is what makes farming work then where has all the land these big tax dodgers bought come from? Was Mark Twain wrong?

Perhaps their kids didn’t want a life of working all hours and in all weathers so they sold said family farm.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Victoria Derbyshire’s car-crash interview with Jeremy Clarkson is worth a watch. Who knew Clarkson isn’t very funny, or intelligent, when he doesn’t have a script writer?

He’s a ****.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Victoria Derbyshire’s car-crash interview with Jeremy Clarkson is worth a watch. Who knew Clarkson isn’t very funny, or intelligent, when he doesn’t have a script writer?

 

[metalblue]

I am sure the Govt will be delighted to impose tariffs on food and increase food prices on UK consumers given we have been putting off imposing Brexit import controls for the last few years. Yet another issue Labour will eventually have to confront thanks to our own stupidity.

If you exempt more farmers by increasing the threshold then they won’t have to pay the tax. That said, how many farmers will be paying the tax under the current proposed threshold is now a propaganda war and is more about attacking the Govt than concern for farmers - see the fishing industry as an example.

Bottom line. We need to raise money and taxes. Farmers, like the rest of us, will have to suck it up and chip in.

Suck it up or protest and go on strike (refusing to deliver food to supermarkets) just like other workers do when they want something from the government.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

Seems to not be a lot of love or sympathy for farmers in here.

They’re swallowing the government line that “those with the broadest shoulders etc etc” without even trying to engage their brains. Symptomatic of where we are I’m afraid.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

To be fair that’s one person. Large numbers of farmers aren’t wealthy and make little to no profit

Of course, but let’s not forget that the little to no profit comes after they’ve paid themselves and their workers.

I have absolutely nothing against farmers but did turn my head when I found a lot of them wanted Brexit.

 

[BobKowalski]

Suck it up or protest and go on strike (refusing to deliver food to supermarkets) just like other workers do when they want something from the government.

Which is their right and one they are currently exercising - as well as blocking emergency vehicles which is (apparently) a shocking and heinous crime.

 

[blueinsa]

I think the phrase "rich farmers" comes up a lot, because that's who is really driving this debate, and who is really going to be affected.

I've heard from Clarkson, Dyson, and Lloyd-Webber telling me that it's the small family farmers they care about, but not much from the farmers with the farms worth £2m or less, which surely is the majority?

Todays protest doesn’t reflect that opinion I’d argue.

Farmers are pretty united on this issue regardless of the amount of times the government and its supporters try to divide them on it.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The IHT changes will be good for farmer s and bad for tax dodging cunts cos playing as farmers.

 

[blueinsa]

I live on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors - town is full of moaning farmers who claim to be skint hill farmers. When you drive over the moors all the farmhouses are lovely. Fields are full of healthy sheep and to be fair a lot of them drive quite old cars and pick-ups but they will tell you they know the value of a car so they won't put sheep or hay bales in a Range Rover - the wives drive them. And their insufferable offspring all drive Corsa's and quad bikes like twats too.

The new flat screen tv and latest mobile phone on contract argument.

 

[metalblue]

Which is their right and one they are currently exercising - as well as blocking emergency vehicles which is (apparently) a shocking and heinous crime.

Didn’t see that, saw them move out of way. Very wrong if they didn’t.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

We’ve just followed USA down the “everything my side does is good, anything your lot does is bad” route.
The details of the actual policies don’t matter any more.