The Labour Government

[Mr Kobayashi]

Why if you've paid national insurance would you not use the NHS or similarly if you've paid the road fund licence would you not use the roads or if you'd paid income tax for 50+ years should you not expect a reasonable retirement.

Expectation doesn't equal reality. When you were paying tax, many services weren't as comprehensive. Councils didn't spend half their budgets on care homes for the elderly.

Reality trumps expectation. Or we can force more kids into poverty instead.

 

[meltonblue]

And the new government have just accepted that and chosen to not look at the reasons why and make changes? We have had this debate before.
You offer the right money and people will join up. Offer less than someone stacking shelves in Tesco and they won't its that simple.

They have made changes. They’ve given the armed forces a pay rise, announced retention benefits as part of the statement today and already increased next years budget by 3 billion.

Shitload more they need to be doing though, which is why the strategic review is so important.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Mossi, my general point is we have two carriers and not enough planes for the carriers, we also dont really have enough escorts ships, or crew to man the ships we have in general.

Surely in these times the navy clearly needs more money spending on it so it is strengthened, not just more empty politicians words from whoever is in charge be it Labour or Tory?

 

[bluethrunthru]

I don't go to Tesco

 

[i kne albert davy]

Expectation doesn't equal reality. When you were paying tax, many services weren't as comprehensive. Councils didn't spend half their budgets on care homes for the elderly.

Reality trumps expectation. Or we can force more kids into poverty instead.

I'm still paying tax in abundance, not sure Councils spend half their budget on care homes now either. Just why would kids be forced into poverty when we pay more tax than ever can you explain where this monies going ?

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Times and practices change. We don’t need ships to ferry marines anymore.

How exactly do you “recruit a crew”?

Especially when they don’t want to be recruited.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

According to Google the below is Royal Navy Pay

Ratings
Starting salary of £16,235 during basic training, rising to £20,000 after 26 weeks. Salaries increase with rank, reaching:
Able Rating – £20,000
Leading Rating – £32,796
Petty Officer – £37,061
Warrant Officer – £50,838
Apprentices
Average yearly pay of approximately £23,913.
Officers
Starting salary of £27,272 a year when joining Britannia Royal Navy College, rising to £32,780 a year after training and experience
Warfare Officer (Submariner)
Starting salary of over £25,200, with a potential salary of over £62,073.

Anyone else on here think the above starting salaries are especially woeful and maybe just maybe part of the reason why people aren't joining the navy? Perhaps if they offered more than the National Living wage they might get some recruits.

Aldi are paying 19k to 23k a year for new starters and I would suggest its hardly a comparable job responsibility or commitment wise ?

 

[meltonblue]

I'm still paying tax in abundance, not sure Councils spend half their budget on care homes now either. Just why would kids be forced into poverty when we pay more tax than ever can you explain where this monies going ?

Not sure which sector I’d like to see cuts to rather than further investment tbh. Personally I’d argue the transference of wealth we should all be more concerned about is still to the rich rather than to the government, the wealth disparity continues to grow.

 

[metalblue]

Its to save £500m to reinvest on Defence - can you imagine how much it costs to keep a Puma thats over 50 years old in the air and how would you feel flying combat missions as for the vessels being scrapped what is the point in having them tied up because you can't crew them due to lack of recruits ( another outsourcing triumph when it was outsourced to Crapita who fail year on year to meet targets ) - Defence spending is incredibly tight there have been a number of reports in recent years condemning a laissez-faire attitude to budgets and spending limits so you can waste money on out of date helicopters and equipment and storing empty ships.

It doesn’t say that at all though. So far it’s just more cuts.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

According to Google the below is Royal Navy Pay

Ratings
Starting salary of £16,235 during basic training, rising to £20,000 after 26 weeks. Salaries increase with rank, reaching:
Able Rating – £20,000
Leading Rating – £32,796
Petty Officer – £37,061
Warrant Officer – £50,838
Apprentices
Average yearly pay of approximately £23,913.
Officers
Starting salary of £27,272 a year when joining Britannia Royal Navy College, rising to £32,780 a year after training and experience
Warfare Officer (Submariner)
Starting salary of over £25,200, with a potential salary of over £62,073.

Anyone else on here think the above starting salaries are especially woeful and maybe just maybe part of the reason why people aren't joining the navy? Perhaps if they offered more than the National Living wage they might get some recruits.

Aldi are paying 19k to 23k a year for new starters and I would suggest it’s hardly a comparable job responsibility or commitment wise ?

Old rates, reviewed and changed in-line with minimum wage.

 

[metalblue]

We know they’ve committed upping spending to 2.5% and are doing the strategic review.

We won’t get the detail until they’ve done that, which I agree with. The question then though is when are they going to complete it as the sooner the better.

They’ve committed to upping spending to 2.5% at a time TBC. It’s word soup until they commit to a date.

 

[meltonblue]

It doesn’t say that at all though. So far it’s just more cuts.

The statement said the savings were being retained in full in the defence budget, so it’s there for reinvestment. Thats why I was asking when the strategic review was planned to be completed.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

View attachment 138546

Not sure which sector I’d like to see cuts to rather than further investment tbh. Personally I’d argue the transference of wealth we should all be more concerned about is still to the rich rather than to the government, the wealth disparity continues to grow.

Not sure those figures are correct? I thought we spent just over 2% of GDP on defence not 6 as it states there.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

They’ve committed to upping spending to 2.5% at a time TBC. It’s word soup until they commit to a date.

That's not a commitment to anyone's ears, other than those that say the words. Just nonsense political speak.

 

[meltonblue]

They’ve committed to upping spending to 2.5% at a time TBC. It’s word soup until they commit to a date.

Which is why I said they were doing the strategic review, that’s to give the roadmap to get to the 2.5%. Collectively it’s not word soup at all.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

The statement said the savings were being retained in full in the defence budget, so it’s there for reinvestment. Thats why I was asking when the strategic review was planned to be completed.

Defence is a mess, literally. People preaching for political gain don’t understand the situation on the ground and will argue anything other than the truth.

Let’s face it, we, as a country, are in shit state and it seems nobody wants to fund it for the future good of our people. You only have to look on here for that. Fuck, some are even leaving the country after they’ve made their money from it.

Pitiful.

 

[hilts]

It's been a rise in pensions of £36 a week over the last two years so (cynically maybe) withdrawing £6 a week now should have been less outrageous than against a £9 a week rise next year.

If we accept that UK pensions are low compared to most other European countries, the triple lock has improved that position. And the "relative" figure that isn't being mentioned is that the number of pensioners keeps getting higher relative to the number of people paying tax to fund their pensions.

As it does in most EU countries where the pensions are better.

 

[meltonblue]

Not sure those figures are correct? I thought we spent just over 2% of GDP on defence not 6 as it states there.

Its percentage of government spending per department, not of GDP.

 

[mosssideblue]

According to Google the below is Royal Navy Pay

Ratings
Starting salary of £16,235 during basic training, rising to £20,000 after 26 weeks. Salaries increase with rank, reaching:
Able Rating – £20,000
Leading Rating – £32,796
Petty Officer – £37,061
Warrant Officer – £50,838
Apprentices
Average yearly pay of approximately £23,913.
Officers
Starting salary of £27,272 a year when joining Britannia Royal Navy College, rising to £32,780 a year after training and experience
Warfare Officer (Submariner)
Starting salary of over £25,200, with a potential salary of over £62,073.

Anyone else on here think the above starting salaries are especially woeful and maybe just maybe part of the reason why people aren't joining the navy? Perhaps if they offered more than the National Living wage they might get some recruits.

Aldi are paying 19k to 23k a year for new starters and I would suggest its hardly a comparable job responsibility or commitment wise ?

Wouldn’t believe those figures too much. You have to remember though that service pay is all found

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The statement said the savings were being retained in full in the defence budget, so it’s there for reinvestment. Thats why I was asking when the strategic review was planned to be completed.

17m a year saving per ship against the loss of that potential capability. Whoopee doo. Just for context this year the UK spent 15m a day on Assylum seekers.