The Labour Government

metalblue said:
You don’t pander to them absolutely not, but do you inflame them further by playing to their, albeit irrational, concerns?

They will have a mistrust in the mainstream press, a feeling that they are treated differently, all their problems are down to foreigners, etc etc.

So you use language that doesn’t single them out for specific treatment. You don’t have your Home Secretary interviewed by her husband. Small things like that feed in to their narrative. The priority has to be to get all sides off the streets and order restored then you can give as many early morning door knocks as possible.

Musk might be a **** of a human but he was bang on in what he said to Starmer about “all” communities. The problem is the people who stoke these protesters up are now going to use that as a signal that the government doesn’t get you.

Now Starmer’s team will have played his potential responses out and gone for what would have been seen as popular, and the number of people who have said he’s bang on on here would suggest I am in the minority of thinking this was the wrong language to use - not all of it btw, some such as saying you’ll face the full force of the law I thought was correct. However being popular and being right are not always the same thing.

Was Starmer the cause of these riots? Absolutely not. Has he, publicly, done anything helpful since? No, IMHO he has gone straight in and picked a side - he’s not really left himself much room to manoeuvre. Will order be restored? Yes, hopefully soon. Hopefully today.
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Musk isn’t ‘bang on’. The initial issue is with organised white racists attacking other groups which then spread into public disorder. Retaliation is to be condemned but it is in response to those who started this. Without that trigger there is no retaliation. Saying ‘all communities’ is like putting German Jews in the frame for disorder while Kristallnacht rages all around them.

Musk is trying to fan the flames of civil disorder in the UK and nodding along to a foreign national weaponising his media platform to attack this country is not a good look.
 
BobKowalski said:
Agreed. Polling shows that a majority of Reform voters are no more sympathetic to riots and disorder than other groups of voters. Isolating Farage on public disorder issues makes sense.
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I suppose they can want to cut immigration without wanting to set fire to them in hotel room.

If even half of @threespires post is correct then you can see why the government are not interested in recalling parliament and give the agent provocateur any airtime. It does all fit together. Have to say if this is the case then I will tip my hat to Starmer in his handling, points to a very clever operator.
 
BobKowalski said:
Musk isn’t ‘bang on’. The initial issue is with organised white racists attacking other groups which then spread into public disorder. Retaliation is to be condemned but it is in response to those who started this. Without that trigger there is no retaliation. Saying ‘all communities’ is like putting German Jews in the frame for disorder while Kristallnacht rages all around them.

Musk is trying to fan the flames of civil disorder in the UK and nodding along to a foreign national weaponising his media platform to attack this country is not a good look.
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Two wrongs don’t make a right - otherwise the cycle continues.

Musk will have his own agenda. He’s a strange ****.
 
metalblue said:
Two wrongs don’t make a right - otherwise the cycle continues.

Musk will have his own agenda. He’s a strange ****.
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The cycle is a section of the majority white population attacking a minority population. As it did in Germany in the 1930’s. The first priority is to stop that. Once you have stopped that the retaliation will also stop. This isn’t a difficult issue once you strip out emotion and bias.

The media and social media platforms have been race baiting for years and this is the result. Musk has weaponised Twitter to provoke racial unrest and in his own words ‘civil war’ and you think he had a point? Did it occur to you to wonder why he said what he said? Was it to help the situation or pour more petrol on the flames?
 
Could Farage actually be arrested if he goes to far in what he says, it can happen to the man on the street but he seems immune?
 
bluethrunthru said:
14 years of mismanagement - corruption and Tory inaction then one month of a Labour Govt and this

www.bbc.co.uk

Thames, Yorkshire and Northumbrian Water face £168m fines over sewage spills

Thames Water, Northumbrian Water and Yorkshire Water face fines for repeated sewage leaks.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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What happens to that money? Does it go to improve our water supplies or does it just disappear? If it goes to improve the water supplies that would surely mean it went back to the water companies surely as they would have to be the ones cleaning up and improving the water supplies?

So what does happen to that money?
 
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metalblue said:
I suppose they can want to cut immigration without wanting to set fire to them in hotel room.

If even half of @threespires post is correct then you can see why the government are not interested in recalling parliament and give the agent provocateur any airtime. It does all fit together. Have to say if this is the case then I will tip my hat to Starmer in his handling, points to a very clever operator.
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Clever operator is probably an apt description. I usually don't get too entangled in politics but after the election I chose to do a little bit of research as to his actual background. Some of it did make very uncomfortable reading.
 
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BobKowalski said:
The cycle is a section of the majority white population attacking a minority population. As it did in Germany in the 1930’s. The first priority is to stop that. Once you have stopped that the retaliation will also stop. This isn’t a difficult issue once you strip out emotion and bias.

The media and social media platforms have been race baiting for years and this is the result. Musk has weaponised Twitter to provoke racial unrest and in his own words ‘civil war’ and you think he had a point? Did it occur to you to wonder why he said what he said? Was it to help the situation or pour more petrol on the flames?
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Musk doesn't do petrol
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
That’s not what happened though. It ended up being gangs of men, armed to the teeth with weapons attacking people and targeting people in their cars. That’s not defending the community. That’s a bunch of racist thugs, just the same as the people rioting in Southport

It sounds like you’re trying to defend it.
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I've already said it was wrong. They were all young lads wound up for a fight, (and it's obvious from their voices that they are locals) and when it didn't come to them, they went looking for one.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Could Farage actually be arrested if he goes to far in what he says, it can happen to the man on the street but he seems immune?
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Farage and others have clearly had legal advice on their messaging around this. You can get done for telling people to go out and riot but you can't get done for saying that this issue is so bad that you wouldn't be surprised if people did go out and riot.......
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Well you've lost that wager. I've got involved in breaking up fights involving people bigger and stronger than me and I'm not exactly a short person. And it wasn't my responsibility and in some cases I went out of my way to do it.

Once intervened to stop a group of Asians give a smack head throwing road works furniture about, a pasting in Ealing because it wasn't happening on my watch (despite him probably deserving it and they were very likely just protecting their businesses).

I wouldn't necessarily call it courage, more stupidity and ego.
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The family of Cameron Brooksbank would be so proud of what he did but he paid the ultimate price, the scum that attacked him got lenient sentences, only one of the group of criminals remain in prison and he'll be out in around 4 years.

No point in intervening (unless it's your job) and it's not good for you to be giving it Billy Big Balls, walk away is the advice in this day and age, there's too many nasty bastards that don't care about the general public.
 
metalblue said:
You’re being rather fatuous - I am inferring that from the words you write. Questioning it he was innocent, that he goaded them, provoked them, should have locked himself inside and not dared venture outside. All implying it’s his fault.

If you can’t criticise both sides for any violence committed - actually in your specific case defend the actions of one - then I can’t take you seriously, you’re just a WUM at that point. Two tier I think is the on trend expression.
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It wasn't necessary for him to go outside and defend the property because at that point they were walking past it. It's very basic logic, if you goad a mob they are likely to target and attack you.

You may be innocent of any wider wrong doing, but you do have to accept some fault, even if most of the blame lies with the people who attacked you.

And you achieve the opposite of what it seems he intended. They were more likely to target his property or place of work not less.

I have criticised both sides. You have just decided to not read the posts where I did.

If the bloke who got beaten the shit out of him by the Kurds in Middlesbrough had nothing to with riots or property damage then that would be wrong. You can't just pick some random bloke to mete out revenge on.

But if he was trying to smash up their businesses or set fire to them, then I don't have any sympathy for him.
 
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Mr Kobayashi said:
I've already said it was wrong. They were all young lads wound up for a fight, (and it's obvious from their voices that they are locals) and when it didn't come to them, they went looking for one.
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They could have easily come from another part of Birmingham. They were all bell ends who were intent on violence.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
You don’t seem to be putting any blame at all on the 20/30 people that battered a lone person. I remember at the semi final in 2010 a lone city fan, who was a bit aggressive got badly beaten up by a large group of United fans. It was completely uncalled for and things like that are never justified.

If you’re going to call it out, do it for all sides. Whether that’s racist thugs in Southport or thugs in Birmingham
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He'll only do that through gritted teeth
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
They could have easily come from another part of Birmingham. They were all bell ends who were intent on violence.
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And they could have gone there with the intent on defending businesses of their relatives who are local to the area.

Would you stay in your own neighborhood if a group of violent racists were heavily rumoured to be on their way and close by?

The majority of the crowd didn't get involved in the ASB, property damage or violence.

The hoax is likely to have originated from far right troublemakers.
 
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