PragueBlue
Well-Known Member
Rightly or wrongly, I suspect our resident Labour supporters would be doing exactly the same if the roles were reversed.
The Labour Government
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Brewster's millions
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It’s a fact though isn’t it?
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
Why the fuck wouldn't they? The Junior Doctors were originally after 35% so to get them to agree to 21% represents a saving.
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
Maybe but I doubt it because going off the last 5 years of Tory governance they fucked up on so many things that it actually became easy to forget quite how many things they fucked up on.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
TBF half of the black hole is of Reeves making. She then cut things like the WFA to reduce the overall £25bn black hole. Thats not to say her decisions are wrong (although I do not personally agree with the WFA one) but rather to say that just blaming the Tories or, indeed, Labour is wrong. Obviously Reeves wants us to think she had no other choices but she did and she does.
Blue Maverick
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My mum and dad won’t be getting it but then they never needed it because my dad planned for his retirement, he used to laugh when the money came through, in fact he has more money now than he knows what to do with, but he won’t spend it because he’s always been frugal, if you are on pension credits you get it, you know those that did fuck all planning in their working lives and had the personal allowance frozen by those twatty Tories, bringing those pensioners into paying income tax! We keep been told loads of old people have shit loads of money so why give them free cash if they don’t really need it?
Blue Maverick
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How much did it cost for constant industrial action though? How much did cost over last few years and the subsequent knock on effects of millions on waiting lists when they could be back at work now rather than been on the sick, that will have cost the country billions as well. It’s going to take two terms to sort this shit show out and maybe then we might see some light at the end of the tunnel.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree the WFA wasn’t required by all so universally cutting it wasn’t a bad decision, it was just where they drew the line to cut it that’s the issue. Anyone getting over 218.15 a week won’t get it with the full state pension being £221.20. These aren’t what anyone would call wealthy pensioners if that’s their sole income.
Blue Maverick
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No they aren’t mate but who’s fault is that, peoples life choices etc plus maybe bad look they ended up in that position, for me fucking off that personal allowance freeze would help bring more money in as a lot of people would then spend that extra cash, by the time it’s up we should be on around £14k beofre any tax paid but it will still be £12570 after 6 years! So they are missing out on people spending £1500 each on the economy, that soon adds up in tax revenue.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
They’re sunk costs mate so don’t create black holes.
The government have made a couple of gambles on pay awards, like you say getting people “back to work” (doctors) and get them “to work” (trains) these are both growth centric policies so you can’t complain at the reasoning. Reeves has spoken a lot on growth so I’m keen to hear her plans in that regard.
For me they’ve done a decent job so far but they were ill advised to explain their reasons for the pay award to junior doctors because now the nurses aren’t happy and they now know what they need to do if they want pay restoration (bring it to a halt). Sometimes it takes a bit of time to switch from opposition mode to government and they’ll learn and get better as they go.
mexico1970
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Whilst Labour are running around trying to save 20 billion and making a lot of noise about the effort they are putting in doing so, what do they think would happen if the people who needed these benefits actually claimed and got them?
www.localgov.co.uk
£23bn in benefits goes unclaimed | LocalGov
The total amount of unclaimed benefits in the UK is now £22.7 billion a year, analysis has found.
www.localgov.co.uk
metalblue
Well-Known Member
I think the issue is you can not work a stitch in your life and get it yet pay in all your life and not. There is an inherent unfairness to that. I don’t think the numbers of pensioners relying solely on state pensions that are impacted by this is huge - about 4000 I believe - however they are of that generation that thought they had a contract with the government. I’d have set the bar higher (or maybe do it by age?) for where they don’t get it just to exclude that cohort.
Whilst Labour are running around trying to save 20 billion and making a lot of noise about the effort they are putting in doing so, what do they think would happen if the people who needed these benefits actually claimed and got them?
£23bn in benefits goes unclaimed | LocalGov
The total amount of unclaimed benefits in the UK is now £22.7 billion a year, analysis has found.
Win-win I'd imagine. While I don't think anyone would argue that the finances are poor, the "running around" is clearly partly performative.
Even on the day that they announced the scrapping of the universal WFA, there were senior Labour ministers encouraging people to apply for other qualifying benefits.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Whilst Labour are running around trying to save 20 billion and making a lot of noise about the effort they are putting in doing so, what do they think would happen if the people who needed these benefits actually claimed and got them?
£23bn in benefits goes unclaimed | LocalGov
The total amount of unclaimed benefits in the UK is now £22.7 billion a year, analysis has found.
I would hope they have structurally allowed for it all to be claimed mate. Otherwise we are well and truly being run by morons.
Now Reeves can use the unclaimed amount to not have to borrow to plug the black hole.
mexico1970
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These unclaimed benefits have surely accumulated too mate, this has been a year on year thing whilst the govt (Any govt) make it harder and harder to actually claim the money.
Are they banging it in one almighty slush fund in the Caymans for a rainy day like Amazon do :)
Blue Maverick
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Totally agree, also the idea banded about about means testing the state pension is Labour poll tax if they do that, why would anyone take out a private pension if that was to happen? In the budget they need to go more for the billionaires and non tax paying companies, hey if they want to leave the country then fuck off I don’t want you if you want to use us a cash cow, they need to tread carefully on pensions as it could lead to say a lot of doctors retiring early if they reduce down the lifetime allowance etc.
Blue Maverick
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Many don’t even know they can claim, my cousin got my dad an allowance because he needs help washing etc, it’s worth a bloody fortune and once you get that it opens up other allowances, I think it’s the same with pension credits and certain disability allowances. They need to make it easier for people to claim even if if it’s a point and click flowchart, thousands fluid be getting help they really need.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
They’ll have pissed it away on summit or t’other mate. They always do.
The black hole is a myth, a gov PR effort to justify actions such as tax increases. The hole is just the difference between the amount to be spent and the amount of income. Both figures are just calculations on a set of assumptions.
In this case that difference is £20 bn. which includes this govs assumption of the increase in gov employees pay. The gov has assumed over 20% increase, whereas the previous gov assumed a 2% increase. If one accepts this change to be more realistic, fine; otherwise the hole left by the previous gov was £10bn.
Now the killer: the uk budget is £1300bn, so the assumed black hole is a tiny tiny percentage of that, 0.8% to 1.6% depending on which figure you accept. Change the assumptions on income very slightly and the hole disappears.
The chancellor describes this ‘hole’ as ‘disastrous’ for which read ‘we want to cut some benefits such as winter fuel allowance and the cap on social care costs and there are tax increase to come.’
Politics eh?
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metalblue
Well-Known Member
Can’t argue with any of that mate. Labour are hoping growth pays for everything. Absolutely nothing wrong with that approach but it does mean Reeves has to be prepared to borrow to kick start it. Being in debt isn’t bad, being in debt you can’t afford is.
In terms of tax there is a global tax regime coming in that will help - a few phases to go through. It’s been years in the making as countries try to protect their bit of the cake.