The Labour Government

I do wonder how many people opposing this on here smoke tobacco and how many opposue it because its nanny state and ultimately Starmer and don't actually care a jot about the health issues
I wonder how many supporting this on here don't smoke and support it because they only care about a nanny state if it affects them and because they support Starmer and don't actually care about other health issues.

Piece a piss this.

You were warned that this would result in huge hypocrisy .
 
I wonder how many supporting this on here don't smoke and support it because they only care about a nanny state if it affects them and because they support Starmer and don't actually care about other health issues.

Piece a piss this.

You were warned that this would result in huge hypocrisy .


How are they going to enforce these silly bans? Society is pretty much lawless any how isn't it?

Government will get brave because the up and coming vapers with be taxed to death picking up any shortfall so they think.
 
They have already lined the replacement tax up, vapes will cost more and more as they phase out ciggie smokers.

Smoking is taxed more than vaping in the UK, as smoking is subject to both tobacco duty and VAT, while vaping is only subject to VAT:


  • Smoking
    A packet of 20 cigarettes is taxed with tobacco duty, ad valorem, and VAT. The average price of a packet of 20 cigarettes increased to £14.39 in 2023, and is expected to increase to around £16 in October 2026.


  • Vaping
    Vaping products are only subject to the standard 20% VAT rate. However, a new bill is proposed that would introduce a duty on vaping products based on the amount of nicotine in the liquid. The proposed duty would be:
    • £1 per 10ml for nicotine-free liquids


    • £2 per 10ml for liquids that contain 0.1-10.9mg


    • £3 per 10ml for liquids that contain 11mg or more
Every tax has to be replaced, wait until pay per mile comes in, the shit really will hit the fan, they are losing around £6 billion a year from EVs in fuel duty and that’s only going to rise.
 
How are they going to enforce these silly bans? Society is pretty much lawless any how isn't it?

Government will get brave because the up and coming vapers with be taxed to death picking up any shortfall so they think.
Well there are approximately 27,000 pubs with beer gardens in the Uk. I’m guessing they will recruit approximately 50,000 new police officers and one will be present in every beer garden from opening time until closing time.
5 years in prison for lighting up should do the trick. Let’s face it there’s nothing else unlawful going on that needs policing is there?
 
But what about those whose mental health and general health be made even more worse due to becoming forced social outcasts even more.

Banning things doesn't automatically help those that need it most, and allowing smokers an area to smoke in the company of others who are accepting of it doesn't mean forcing their habit on others.

plenty of pubs now have designated area and no smokong areas in beer gardens, a complete ban won't necessarily mean someone will give up, but does ostracise them even more from society.

Just seems.starmer has found a now minor issue to be puritanicl about, I don't drive and don't want to breathe in car fumes, imagine if we baned cars in urban areas, which will be just as helpful for our health, no one would stand for it as the majority drive.
Choking kids in a beemer is a necessity though whilst smokers needn't seek out the nearest child and blow their fumes directly into young Johnny's mush.

I mean he doesn't even want to be there but his parents have the right to bring their kids up as they see fit. If that means having them sat at a table watching everyone get pissed as farts that's fine. It's the only way they can understand how they should act as they get older.

I suppose the parents could have taken him to a park but they don't sell cider there.

Bloody smokers, smoking outside ruining our pissed up with the kids weekend.

Oy Johnny I'm off to the bar do you want another full fat coke? Good. Crisps? Okay

Last packet though we are getting a kebab on the way home.
 
No issue at all with Labour trying to ban smoking in other outdoor spaces like pub gardens. It's filthy as fuck, if you want to smoke, do so in the privacy of your home and don't infect others (including young children) with your habit.
 
Well there are approximately 27,000 pubs with beer gardens in the Uk. I’m guessing they will recruit approximately 50,000 new police officers and one will be present in every beer garden from opening time until closing time.
5 years in prison for lighting up should do the trick. Let’s face it there’s nothing else unlawful going on that needs policing is there?
Alternatively, a landlord can throw out any selfish wanker that lights up and doesn't abide by the prospective new rules.
 
Alternatively, a landlord can throw out any selfish wanker that lights up and doesn't abide by the prospective new rules.


Just throw out the scruffy parents who can't do without a drink and have to infest a pub with their children.

Jobs a good 'un, no need for being a moralising arsehole.
 
I see 3 of Rachel Thieves 4 key advisors are wanting to means test the state pension.
Staggering.
Now whilst it is time limited (an average 24 years of life after reaching pension age), it is a contract with British workers - if you pay NI contributions for 35 years you get the full amount.
So removing it is tantamount to breaking a contract with the British people.
Oh and it is means tested, as it counts as income towards your income tax payment calculation. Oh and by 2027 you will pay tax on the base amount if personal allowances don't rise with inflation.
Jack Jones, former TGWU union leader, who fought for pension rights later in his life, will be turning in his grave.
 
Last edited:
No issue at all with Labour trying to ban smoking in other outdoor spaces like pub gardens. It's filthy as fuck, if you want to smoke, do so in the privacy of your home and don't infect others (including young children) with your habit.
Jesus fucking Christ.
 
Labour deflection so the voters don't notice the damage they are doing, a political tactic tried and trusted.

Failed in NZ didn't it? These pillocks haven't got a clue what they are doing.
It's so laughably bad and adults with so called brains are falling for it, I mean we allow people to shoplift, literally walk in to a shop and just take shit. How the hell is this even enforceable? What's in front of a pub and what's not? What if the wind is blowing towards the pub or across the pub.

Excuse me sir can you stand 7 feet further away please, why he isn't over there, hes down wind:-)

They brought a similar thing into force in Spain. You can only smoke in non crowded areas. No more outside bars etc. Hilarious watching people smoking on the pavements leaning over barriers talking to ther friends.

It's frightening the fucking idiots who think of these things are actually in charge.
 
How are they going to enforce these silly bans? Society is pretty much lawless any how isn't it?

Government will get brave because the up and coming vapers with be taxed to death picking up any shortfall so they think.
The idea that the police will be able to enforce a ban on people lighting up when they come out of a football stadium at the end of a match is frankly laughable. Absolutely absurd.
 
It'd be interesting to know what the 'legalise marijuana' lobby thinks of all this. Hard to legalise a substance when the practice has been banned.
 
It's so laughably bad and adults with so called brains are falling for it, I mean we allow people to shoplift, literally walk in to a shop and just take shit. How the hell is this even enforceable? What's in front of a pub and what's not? What if the wind is blowing towards the pub or across the pub.

Excuse me sir can you stand 7 feet further away please, why he isn't over there, hes down wind:-)

They brought a similar thing into force in Spain. You can only smoke in non crowded areas. No more outside bars etc. Hilarious watching people smoking on the pavements leaning over barriers talking to ther friends.

It's frightening the fucking idiots who think of these things are actually in charge.


Give fast food joints a booze license so that parents who want to get sozzled while they are with their kids can do it in a place designed for children :)
 
Another way of looking at Truss and Kwarteng's mini-budget that I have encountered is this:

1. 'Trussonomics' is a variant of 'Trickle-Down' economics, an economic theory that has never, ever (since the time of Reagan) produced the much anticipated 'growth'.

2. Presumably, it doesn't achieve the desired effect because many companies these days are entirely in thrall to their shareholders. So any extra profits that arise from cuts in taxation and deregulation will be paid to them rather than reinvested in the business to secure its long term future. Since the 1980’s, companies have been put under increasing pressure to deliver higher short-term profits, otherwise they may place themselves at risk of a hostile takeover from a Gordon Gekko-type – character.

3. In addition to the payment of higher dividends, the easiest way for the CEO of a company to enable these short-term profits to be made is simply to cut costs, something that can be achieved by reducing the workforce through redundancies, freezing salaries, lowering overheads (like paying for employee pensions, cutting investment in research & development, and selling off less profitable arms of the business). This ‘slash and burn’ approach was faithfully depicted in Oliver Stone’s movie. And by the time the company gets into trouble, the CEOs who enacted this policy will often have moved on.

4.To convey an impression of how serious this problem is, in the UK, the average period of shareholding, which had already fallen from 5 years in the mid-1960’s to two years in the 1980’s, plummeted to about 7.5 months by the end of 2007. Additionally, between the 1950’s and 1970’s (when Keynesian economic policies held sway), about 35-45% of corporate profits were given to shareholders in the form of dividends. But between 2001 and 2010, the largest US companies handed over 94% of their profits, while the top UK companies gave away 89% of theirs.

5. Tax cuts for the poorest do make sense, as they will tend to spend any additional income they have. The notion of tax cuts also has intuitive appeal because of this, causing this notion to be perceived as 'common sense'. Reform's proposal to raise the tax threshold in their manifesto may have resonated with potential voters for this reason. But any growth achieved by such cuts are more than offset by factors 2-4.

6. The financial markets these days are aware that 'Trickle-down' does not work (as encapsulated by the cover of the book depicted below), and so this is why Truss & Kwarteng's budget went down like a lead balloon.

View attachment 129994

7. So why did Truss support such a discredited theory? The only reason I can think of is psychological: she is an ideologue. Often, converts to faiths tend to be far more zealous than those who grow up in one, as if they have a point to prove. Truss was not always a Tory, so maybe she falls into this category.

One caveat: I am a complete dilettante when it comes to economics and it could very well be that much of the above explanation is flawed. So it is only offered tentatively.

But I thought it was worth putting out there.
Thanks for posting - very interesting.

The biggest balls ups IMO were failings by the Bank of England and in particular, Andrew Bailey, who IMO is simply not up to the job.

First, the BoE failed to see the upcoming inflationary pressures and even after inflation was rising and way above the 2% target, they failed to raise rates enough or quickly enough. Then when the started to raise rates they kept on raising them and went to far. And have since failed to reduce them fast enough.

Inflation is caused either by excessive demand (rising faster than the ability to increase supply). Or alternatively, due to increased material and labour costs. i.e. in the former case, suppliers increase their prices because they can; whereas in the latter, they do so because they are forced to, or else they would sell at a loss. Unusually, this latter type of inflation was what we were witnessing in the latter stages, due to the massively increased energy costs, and wage increases that we're working their way through the system.

The BoE totally failed to understand this, and keeping interest rates high when we have supply side inflation, is entirely the wrong response. Dampening demand does nothing to help bring prices down when excess demand is not the cause of price rises. In fact it makes things worse, increasing costs even further and damaging sales.

Their actions prolonged the high inflation rates and severely damaged growth. Inflation was always going to fall naturally as the higher prices stablized and there was no need whatsoever to keep interest rates so high for so long. This just made people poorer for no reason.

And incidentally the bond market crash was also down to the BoE failing to properly regulate the pensions industry, and in particular major issues with what are called LDIs - Liability-Driven Investment funds. All Truss did was precipate a problem that had been brewing for years.

Her only real failing - though it was a massive one - was failing to get the BoE on board, or to adequately explain to the City her plans to reassure them. So the BoE threw her under a bus and the City panicked.
 
Last edited:
Sugar alcohol exactly same argument

Tax on alcohol tax on sugar, why is an occasional drinker or sugar user paying tax on these ?

So by your logic we should put tax on all sugar then.

It's not. Sugar as a sweetener in some foods and alcohol as a social lubricant are okay in moderation. There isn't a safe level of smoking.

Piss pots and people who eat shit and drink crap however are well.known for their common sense. People can be very stupid it doesn't only affect smokers, pmsl at that one :-)

You're last paragraph just tells us your bias against smokers which seems strangely unhealthy if you pardon the pun, lots of things probably shouldn't exist as a demographic ,in my opinion but I'm not such a busy **** that I feel I have the right to enforce it on others.

It's not at all. You make it sound as if I want to round them up and put them in camps. No I just want them to get help and not pass on the habit to others.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top