The Labour Government

[west didsblue]

I don't agree with that at all. Sure he condemned the riots, well done.

He also clearly leaned on the judiciary, presumably through influence and former contacts to dish out sentences which in some cases were utterly ludicrous. I find that VERY disconcerting indeed. The judiciary are supposed to be impartial, but demonstrably in many cases, they were not.

I don't know what pressure he applied to the police either, because we CLEARLY saw two-tier policing in action. White people being arrested for doing nothing more than shouting, and in other situations, Muslim gangs with knives just being asked nicely by the police if they wouldn't mind dropping them off at the Mosque. And when asked about two-tier policing, all he does is get tetchy about it, rather than addressing the question and the issue.

He also alienated thousands of Labour voters in deprived areas, branding anyone who was outside anywhere near a riot as a far-right thug/racist. I am sure that went down well. And given his massive pro-European anti-brexit mindset, he has completely failed to make any comment about him understanding tension and issues caused by mass immigration, which was what the protests were all about.

I would not call all of the above "spot on". The public don't either, hence his approval ratings. Do you not realise that immigration is THE biggest issue the electorate are concerned about, and throughout the disturbances, he didn't mention it at all. Which IMO shows his arrogance and complete lack of political nouse. This will ultimately cost him IMO.

Sounds like you’ve been listening to Farage and believing him.
You must have missed Sameer Ali and Adnan Ghafoor being sentenced to 20 and 18 months respectively. They were the first counter-protesters to be locked up. I’m sure there’s plenty more if I could be arsed to look it up.

 

[Postman Pep]

Starmer put a stop to it.

2 years and 160K later ....

Question is, was the car what his Tory predecessor used to use?

No idea

Anyway, this story was public knowledge last year.

First reported 4 years ago by Matt Kennard of Declassified....... so it's about as old as this story. Tories being corrupt who knew?

Now for real corruption, you know where to look.

Robert Jenrick: What did housing secretary do and why are there calls for him to quit?

Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick is facing calls to resign over his role in a controversial project proposed by Richard Desmond.

news.sky.com

 

[Chippy_boy]

You believe this because it chimes in with your politics. We've always had two tier policing, one for the rich and one for the poor, I don't recall you complaining too much about that.

What we have here is not two tier policing, but a policy decision by the police to view the race rioters as perpetrators and the "Muslim gangs" as victims, those kind of distinctions have been made by coppers since the days they were actually paid in coppers.

What vexes you is you don't agree with the distinction here.

I urge you to watch this, it's hard to find two people you equally despise slugging it out, but it's John McTernan saying the quiet part out loud that has had my wife and I talking about it....



At the core of this debate, the debate no one ever has, is nativism.....

Nativism
Political ideology

Description​

Nativism is the political policy of promoting or protecting the interests of native-born or indigenous people over those of immigrants, including the support of anti-immigration and immigration-restriction measures.
............

if you believe in nativism, as you clearly do, then what has happened with these riots is slam dunk two tier policing directed by Starmer.

If you don't believe in it, as McTernan doesn't, then this is a clear cut case of racist perpetrators versus victims.

Interesting, I will watch it. Thanks.

Actually though, I am somewhat of a neurtal bystander in this, not a nativist at all. I am fortunate to live in a leafy suburb where there is total social cohesion because everyone is middle class white British. You don't see a non-white face around here, so this whole question was until a few weeks ago, something I never gave a moments thought to. To be clear, I am not saying White British is a solution, merely reflecting that IS the demographic where I live, so no-one ever gives multi-racial social cohesion a passing thought.

Anyway, there's a guy on Youtube - Paul Walsh - who is/was a watch dealer and as I am interested in watches, so I used to watch his channel. But over recent months he's been getting seemingly more and more "racist", which I was finding a big turn off. I even contemplated emailing him to say he needs to give his head a wobble because the problems he kept banging on about do not exist.

But gradually, I have started to realise he has a point. I have come to realise that there are large parts of the country where all is not harmonious. In particular, there are large numbers of Islamists who would if they could, introduce Sharia law. There is clearly a problem is some parts of the country, and not talking about it, is not the solution.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I never said it was or wasn't fully independent. My point was we don't know whether Starmer leant on it

You actually said, so what if he did? Implying it didn't matter? Or did I read that incorrectly?

As regards your last point, I agree we will never know for sure, but it is reasonable to assume that he or someone in government has, as the sentances are extremely harsh compared to other sentencing crimes.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Interesting, I will watch it. Thanks.

Actually though, I am somewhat of a neurtal bystander in this, not a nativist at all. I am fortunate to live in a leafy suburb where there is total social cohesion because everyone is white British. You don't see a non-white face around here, so this whole question was until a few weeks ago, something I never gave a moments thought to.

To the extent that there's a guy on Youtube - Paul Walsh - who is/was a watch dealer and as I am interested in watches, I used to watch his channel. But over recent months he's been getting seemingly more and more "racist", which I was finding a big turn off. I even contemplated emailing him to say he needs to give his head a wobble because the problems he kept banging on about do not exist.

But gradually, I have started to realise he has a point. I have come to realise that there are large parts of the country where all is not harmonious. That there are large numbers of Islamists who would if they could, introduce Sharia law. There is clearly a problem is some parts of the country, and not talking about it, is not the solution.

There have been 'religious courts'' in the UK for years

London Beth Din | Court of the Chief Rabbi | United Kingdom

The London Beth Din is one of Europe’s premier halachic authorities and is the Court of the Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth

www.bethdin.org.uk

But for some reason courts associated with people with brown skin are a problem for you?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sounds like you’ve been listening to Farage and believing him.
You must have missed Sameer Ali and Adnan Ghafoor being sentenced to 20 and 18 months respectively. They were the first counter-protesters to be locked up. I’m sure there’s plenty more if I could be arsed to look it up.

So you're suggesting we've had even-handed policing and sentencing? If so, I think you are mistaken.

I am sure we can both find isolated examples on either side, but the question is not about isolated examples, it is about the situation as a whole.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There have been 'religious courts'' in the UK for years

London Beth Din | Court of the Chief Rabbi | United Kingdom

The London Beth Din is one of Europe’s premier halachic authorities and is the Court of the Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth

www.bethdin.org.uk

But for some reason courts associated with people with brown skin are a problem for you?

No, I have a problem witH ALL religious courts. I didn't know there were any actually!

We should have 1 law here, The Law of England and Wales. Full stop. Do you know what Sharia Law is, and the various punishments applicable under it!??!!?!

For a handful of specific crimes, the punishment is fixed (ḥadd): death for apostasy, amputation of the hand for theft and of the hand and foot for highway robbery, death by stoning for extramarital sexual relations (zinā) when the offender is married and 100 lashes when the offender is unmarried, and 80 lashes for an unproved accusation of unchastity (qadhf) and for the drinking of any intoxicant.

You're OK with this are you?

 

[mosssideblue]

You actually said, so what if he did? Implying it didn't matter? Or did I read that incorrectly?

As regards your last point, I agree we will never know for sure, but it is reasonable to assume that he or someone in government has, as the sentances are extremely harsh compared to other sentencing crimes.

I think you read it incorrectly.

Reasonable to assume is not guilt though is it?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Interesting, I will watch it. Thanks.

Actually though, I am somewhat of a neurtal bystander in this, not a nativist at all. I am fortunate to live in a leafy suburb where there is total social cohesion because everyone is white British. You don't see a non-white face around here, so this whole question was until a few weeks ago, something I never gave a moments thought to.

To the extent that there's a guy on Youtube - Paul Walsh - who is/was a watch dealer and as I am interested in watches, I used to watch his channel. But over recent months he's been getting seemingly more and more "racist", which I was finding a big turn off. I even contemplated emailing him to say he needs to give his head a wobble because the problems he kept banging on about do not exist.

But gradually, I have started to realise he has a point. I have come to realise that there are large parts of the country where all is not harmonious. That there are large numbers of Islamists who would if they could, introduce Sharia law. There is clearly a problem is some parts of the country, and not talking about it, is not the solution.

Then McTernan would see you as the problem, your inability to come to terms with 21st Century multi ethnic, multi faith Britain. In McTernan's multi cultural Britain Sharia law is not a problem, what does it threaten? Mainstream British culture and values? With multiculturalism there is no such thing as mainstream British culture and values, just a potpourri of different cultures, mingling, interacting, evolving, nothing is under threat because there's nothing to threaten.

Labour will not "solve" the immigration problem because from a mechanical point of view it's immensely difficult, but primarily because their heart is not in it and it hasn't been for a very long time.

Remember this....



Gordon Brown saying the quiet thing out loud by accident.

When the right wing say Labour has abandoned the white working class, that the globalist elitists like Blair, Brown and Starmer despise them, this is what they're talking about.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I urge you to watch this, it's hard to find two people you equally despise slugging it out, but it's John McTernan saying the quiet part out loud that has had my wife and I talking about it....

OK, watched it. John McTernan was talking nonsense. Thousands and thousands of people went outside to protest during these riots. A small number - perhaps a hundred or even a couple of hundred, I would guess - out of the thousands, were obviously criminals and did engage in riot. But thousands did not riot, they stood and watched and perhaps chanted or shouted.

To suggest they are all far-right racists is just ridiculous. Apart from anything else, the majority of people in many of those towns are Labour supporters. McTernan is just yet another example of someone who is not prepared to acknowledge that people are concerned about mass immigration. How on earth does he think Reform got 4,1m votes? Who were these voters, does he think?