The Labour Government

hammocity said:
Good for you, well done, I don't have your extensive knowledge of welfare benefits but you're being disingenuous if you don't accept some claimants can get Universal Payments paid direct to them and are responsible to pay Landlords which many didn't.

I'm not surprised your's an adviser in this field, you abuse a lot of posters on here who have a different opinion, you think you're a smart arse but I'm not buying it, bet you're a right barrel of laughs.
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You don’t like having your ignorance of benefits exposed do you?
PIP isn’t even a means tested benefit, Richard Branson could claim it if he qualified. It has fuck all to do with rent.
It was never paid to landlords.
Try reading beyond the red tops deary cos at the moment your pig ignorance is embarrassing, you just look stupid.
 
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metalblue said:
So about 1 in 3 leave voters where Labour voters - or put another way about 15% of all Labour voters. 70% of leave voters did so due to concerns about immigration - that’s ~10% of all Labour voters are anti immigration. Thus my central premise that for you to say no Labour voters were present at the riots is not obviously a truism, certainly they will be in the minority.

It’s too easy (convenient even) to refer to anti immigration as racism when in fact it’s as likely to be xenophobia - it better fits the definition and better explains why people say “I’m not racist but…” when talking about immigration. The right is where you will find racists of that there is no dispute, but across both ends of the political spectrum you will find xenophobia and to pretend otherwise fails to understand the problem that needs to be addressed - and if you don’t understand, or fail to recognise, the problem you won’t fix it. Encouraging a conversation that focuses on positive undertones (and that’s not language of “smash the criminal gangs” or “stop the boats”) is the grown up approach, that is why Labour should tackle it IMHO. Having listened to a couple of the Tory leadership hopefuls I don’t have much hope they will change the toxic narrative on this topic.
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No problem with the last paragraph, but the first paragraph makes some giant statistical leaps.

1. That Labour Leave voters were evenly represented in the 70% of Leave voters concerned about immigration. They could all be the 30% of Leave voters not concerned about immigration, and simply anti-EU as it's a capitalist institution.

2. My original comment was based on canvassing - anybody for whom immigration was a strong issue was not going to vote Labour, and of anyone going to vote Labour who had concerns about immigration some were quite likely to blame the Tories for creating the asylum backlog (and for the nasty rhetoric). From hundreds of contacts, only one seemed angry enough for me to think (now) that he might have gone rioting.

Vic said:
I'll go out on a limb and say anyone out on a riot against immigration is not likely to be a Labour voter, or if they are I'd rather not be asking for their vote.

Whereas the Tories have provided the rhetoric that we heard from the rioters.
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Blue Maverick said:
Years before if you were on benefits the rent got paid direct to the landlords but then some right spark thought that was demeaning and people should be allowed the responsibility of receiving their benefits then paying to the landlord themselves, it was always going to happen many would go down the route of spending it elsewhere.
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Interesting to see Tory likes for that. Did they not know it was a Tory "bright spark" idea?
 
Aphex said:
Ouch..

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Isn't that from a few years ago when a bunch of anti-vaxers accosted him about amongst other things supposedly not prosecuting Saville, a discredited claim which Johnson had made the previous week? Not sure of the relevance of it now other than to remind us we used to have a PM who really didn't give a shit about the consequences of his lies.
 
threespires said:
Isn't that from a few years ago when a bunch of anti-vaxers accosted him about amongst other things supposedly not prosecuting Saville, a discredited claim which Johnson had made the previous week? Not sure of the relevance of it now other than to remind us we used to have a PM who really didn't give a shit about the consequences of his lies.
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He'd probably have them all locked up for years now if he had the chance.
 
meltonblue said:
Well that’s more on you and how you chose to read it to be fair. I was making the point of the different levels between those on a grade higher than me, myself and then those on a grade lower. I said they “worked for me” in the context of I feel personally responsible for them and them feeling rewarded as well as enjoying what they do as a personal accountability, however I’m constrained by the same company rules everyone else is.

I consider them all my colleagues and actually primarily friends, neither of which apply as much as to how I feel about those in the director or exec level roles.

Regardless of that, it’s only demeaning and insulting depending on the context. There’s numerous times a week where I have to say “I work for x” or “x works for me”. It’s only baffling when you attempt to project an ulterior motivation for doing it like you’ve done there, which I find even more baffling than attempting to check the motivation before doing so.
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Absolute bollocks, you've showed your true colours and are trying to hide behind your indefensible POV, I hate that "he/she works for me" change your stance, it's shocking tbh.
 
mexico1970 said:
He'd probably have them all locked up for years now if he had the chance.
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Maybe he lies there wishing he could do a "Donald" and seek to settle all his old scores with a few day 1 executive orders? More seriously, after the murders of Jo Cox and David Amess and a host of incidents in the last election, I do think anyone physically haranguing our elected representatives needs to be dealt with pretty harshly.
 
threespires said:
Maybe he lies there wishing he could do a "Donald" and seek to settle all his old scores with a few day 1 executive orders? More seriously, after the murders of Jo Cox and David Amess and a host of incidents in the last election, I do think anyone physically haranguing our elected representatives needs to be dealt with pretty harshly.
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I'd agree with you completely, the only problems I see with the proposition is that both sides of the argument vehemently believe people that don't think like they do deserve everything they get.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
You don’t like having your ignorance of benefits exposed do you?
PIP isn’t even a means tested benefit, Richard Branson could claim it if he qualified. It has fuck all to do with rent.
It was never paid to landlords.
Try reading beyond the red tops deary cos at the moment your pig ignorance is embarrassing, you just look stupid.
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I don't read red tops, as I posted before you are very dismissive of anyone who is slightly off track.

I'm always willing to have my argument debated and admit I'm wrong but you are so intransigent, I'll not bother any more.
 
mexico1970 said:
I'd agree with you completely, the only problems I see with the proposition is that both sides of the argument vehemently believe people that don't think like they do deserve everything they get.
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INo doubt there's a fair few like that thanks to the joys of social media etc. In the same way that having a pop at the police is an aggravating factor which means you are more likely to have the book thrown at you, having a pop at our elected legislators (and for that matter the judiciary and the executive) is a direct attack on the rule of law and shouldn't be tolerated.
 
Sooner or later this new Labour government has to jettison the conspiracy of silence and address the elephant in the room. When Brexit Boston is turning against it , it's surely time for a complete about turn. I reckon a referendum now would produce a 60/40 win for re-entry, but instead of reopening a damaging debate it's time to put this supermajority to good use and by pass the need (especially if polling confirms my beliefs) and show leadership which I think people in the UK really want now.

 
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