The Labour Government

[mosssideblue]

Have the pensioners no paid tax to fund their pensions already ?

No.
Certainly paid tax, but that tax was to fund the pensioners at the time. Current tax payers are now paying current pensions

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So now you're guessing. They are in disrepair, old technology and are crew deficient. Makes total sense to mothball now rather than throw good money down the drain, would you agree?

Good evening Mossi, Yes I was guessing, but I based my statement on the fact that they were to continue in service until 2033 and Albion has just undergone a refit, so the guess was that the disrepair you talk of wasnt that great? They were built 23 years ago. So not that old?

Can I will ask you this, if they are too old to carry on as you state, would the Navy not have preferred to build new ships and retire these after the new ones entered service? Also what's the point of the Royal Marines if they don't have transport?

 

[i kne albert davy]

The Tolpuddle Martyrs were farm workers and they deported them lol

I think back in the day we could scrape by without 6 farm labourers though.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Have the pensioners no paid tax to fund their pensions already ?

They didn't fund their pensions. They funded their predecessors' pensions. But you know that, and you know that as the working population shrinks in comparison that there will have to be further cuts, raising of the age at when people start drawing it or a massive a restructuring of how pensions are provided.

 

[mosssideblue]

Good evening Mossi, Yes I was guessing, but I based my statement on the fact that they were to continue in service until 2033 and Albion has just undergone a refit, so the guess was that the disrepair you talk of wasnt that great? They were built 23 years ago. So not that old?

Can I will ask you this, if they are too old to carry on as you state, would the Navy not have preferred to build new ships and retire these after the new ones entered service? Also what's the point of the Royal Marines if they don't have transport?

They were mothballed and not due to sail again. Once that decision is made they get store robbed and become part donors.

Sure, new ships would be great if there was a will to do that, but certainly the Tories were not inclined and, tbh, no point having new toys if there are insufficient numbers to operate them, which is the biggest defence risk we have.

Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world without a navy

 

[mosssideblue]

They didn't fund their pensions. They funded their predecessors' pensions. But you know that, and you know that as the working population shrinks in comparison that there will have to be further cuts, raising of the age at when people start drawing it or a massive a restructuring of how pensions are provided.

This is critical going forward

 

[i kne albert davy]

They didn't fund their pensions. They funded their predecessors' pensions. But you know that, and you know that as the working population shrinks in comparison that there will have to be further cuts, raising of the age at when people start drawing it or a massive a restructuring of how pensions are provided.

Or maybe being one of the highest taxes countries in the world, certainly paying more tax than ever in peace time we should look where the monies going, if you pay tax for 50+ years you should expect a reasonable retirement.

 

[meltonblue]

It's politicians language. It is often meaningless.

Only if people don’t hold them to account against it. Starmer has made a cast iron commitment to increasing spending to 2.5% and the strategic review underway is to say the roadmap on how to get there.

If it doesn’t or if he doesn’t deliver the roadmap, then he will fail in that commitment, it’s not that he hasn’t made one.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

They were mothballed and not due to sail again. Once that decision is made they get store robbed and become part donors.

Sure, new ships would be great if there was a will to do that, but certainly the Tories were not inclined and, tbh, no point having new toys if there are insufficient numbers to operate them, which is the biggest defence risk we have.

Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world without a navy

Something that is mothballed can be mothballed but as you state there has to be a will to do so.

That will now rests with the current government, not the tories, who rather than replace them or even bring them out of mothball state in a time when international tensions are very high, have instead chosen to scrap them and denude our military capability further. This was Healeys decision not the Tories.

If Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world, why did we have them in the first place?

 

[mackenzie]

They didn't fund their pensions. They funded their predecessors' pensions. But you know that, and you know that as the working population shrinks in comparison that there will have to be further cuts, raising of the age at when people start drawing it or a massive a restructuring of how pensions are provided.

Wasn't it once 7:1 and now it's 4:1?

Even as someone who might get their State Pension in 6 years I can well understand how that is unsustainable.

 

[bluethrunthru]

They were mothballed and not due to sail again. Once that decision is made they get store robbed and become part donors.

Sure, new ships would be great if there was a will to do that, but certainly the Tories were not inclined and, tbh, no point having new toys if there are insufficient numbers to operate them, which is the biggest defence risk we have.

Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world without a navy

and there is no point in building new ships to add to your inventory if you can't crew them - as would be said

NO CREWS
NO SHIP.

 

[mosssideblue]

Something that is mothballed can be mothballed but as you state there has to be a will to do so.

That will now rests with the current government, not the tories, who rather than replace them or even bring them out of mothball state in a time when international tensions are very high, have instead chosen to scrap them and denude our military capability further. This was Healeys decision not the Tories.

If Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world, why did we have them in the first place?

If there is conflict abroad and our marines are needed, how do you think they would get there?

Again, without a crew, what capability has been lost?

 

[mosssideblue]

and there is no point in building new ships to add to your inventory if you can't crew them - as would be said

NO CREWS
NO SHIP.

Exactly. Lack of service personnel and recruitment failing to meet demand is the MoDs and Governments biggest defence headache

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Or maybe being one of the highest taxes countries in the world, certainly paying more tax than ever in peace time we should look where the monies going, if you pay tax for 50+ years you should expect a reasonable retirement.

It went on paying for the previous pensioners and public services? Maybe don't use the NHS or public roads, but keep your tax. See how far you can get from your house?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

If there is conflict abroad and our marines are needed, how do you think they would get there?

Again, without a crew, what capability has been lost?

Why did we need them in the first place then? clearly using your logic they were never ever needed?

Would it not have been better to recruit a crew?

 

[meltonblue]

Something that is mothballed can be mothballed but as you state there has to be a will to do so.

That will now rests with the current government, not the tories, who rather than replace them or even bring them out of mothball state in a time when international tensions are very high, have instead chosen to scrap them and denude our military capability further. This was Healeys decision not the Tories.

If Marines are capable of getting anywhere in the world, why did we have them in the first place?

It’s worth saying the service chiefs all agreed with this too, they clearly believe the money would be better spend elsewhere and I’m more inclined to trust them than the politicians.

On the Marines, they can still be transported by the Bay Class ships. Clearly not ideal but that’s similar across the board right now!

 

[mosssideblue]

Why did we need them in the first place then? clearly using your logic they were never ever needed?

Would it not have been better to recruit a crew?

Times and practices change. We don’t need ships to ferry marines anymore.

How exactly do you “recruit a crew”?

 

[i kne albert davy]

It went on paying for the previous pensioners and public services? Maybe don't use the NHS or public roads, but keep your tax. See how far you can get from your house?

Why if you've paid national insurance would you not use the NHS or similarly if you've paid the road fund licence would you not use the roads or if you'd paid income tax for 50+ years should you not expect a reasonable retirement.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Exactly. Lack of service personnel and recruitment failing to meet demand is the MoDs and Governments biggest defence headache

And the new government have just accepted that and chosen to not look at the reasons why and make changes? We have had this debate before.
You offer the right money and people will join up. Offer less than someone stacking shelves in Tesco and they won't its that simple.

 

[mosssideblue]

And the new government have just accepted that and chosen to not look at the reasons why and make changes? We have had this debate before.
You offer the right money and people will join up. Offer less than someone stacking shelves in Tesco and they won't its that simple.

It’s not the pay believe me