The Labour Government

[Kompany Car]

You haven't included unfettered immigration in your causes for the rise of the right, do you not consider this to be a factor?

If everyone was doing fine and had a decent standard of living, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid to immigration.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

If everyone was doing fine and had a decent standard of living, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid to immigration.

Correct but they're not, hospital waiting lists are increasing, housing shortage all linked to population expanding quicker than it can cope with.

 

[Really_here]

I know Chairman Starmer couldn't care less but this has hit 3million now

Petition: Call a General Election

I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[Kompany Car]

Correct but they're not, hospital waiting lists are increasing, housing shortage all linked to population expanding quicker than it can cope with.

Is that the problem or is it years of underinvestment, a lack of modernisation and an increase in people with mental health issues and illnesses related to being poor.

If you cant afford to eat properly, heat your house and continually live hand to mouth within insecure accomodation, is it any wonder the health service is swamped.

As you well know, the aging population also results in more demand.

Unskilled migrants undoubtedly cause additional strain on services but they are far the root cause.

I might be wrong but, its my belief that race, culture and religion doesn't cause division, its wealth differential.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Is that the problem or is it years of underinvestment, a lack of modernisation and an increase in people with mental health issues and illnesses related to being poor.

If you cant afford to eat properly, heat your house and continually live hand to mouth within insecure accomodation, is it any wonder the health service is swamped.

As you well know, the aging population also results in more demand.

Unskilled migrants undoubtedly cause additional strain on services but they are far the root cause.

I might be wrong but, its my belief that race, culture and religion doesn't cause division, its wealth differential.

Its simple numbers , demand exceeding supply. Why so scared of admitting that. Starmer agrees, we must bring immigration down. Why is he saying this if it's such a good thing. Truth is there is a balance and the balance in numbers is much lower that what we have been accepting.

 

[bluenova]

I know Chairman Starmer couldn't care less but this has hit 3million now

Petition: Call a General Election

I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.

petition.parliament.uk

Only 3m? 19m people voted for parties other than Labour at the general election. Does this mean that the vast majority of them think he's doing a great job :)

Or is it as silly as the 6m that signed this petition?

Archived Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[True_Blue69]

Out of interest what do you class as being far right in the UK. Is the far right the rioters this August? Is it voting for Reform? is it backing Kemi Bardenochs Conservatism? is it just voting for Brexit. Is it just wanting to slow the rate of immigration?

Was having a similar discussion the other day. Everything is ‘far right’ now. The way I always understood it was nazi skinheads or the like, seems that anyone that leans remotely right is now labelled far right.

Oh and before I get labelled it, I didn’t vote brexit and have never voted Tory, UKIP or Reform so am definitely not right leaning in any shape or form.

 

[Kompany Car]

Its simple numbers , demand exceeding supply. Why so scared of admitting that. Starmer agrees, we must bring immigration down. Why is he saying this if it's such a good thing. Truth is there is a balance and the balance in numbers is much lower that what we have been accepting.

I dont think I said immigration was necessarily positive, did I ? I just said its not the root cause of the problems.

Everything fundamentally is a supply and demand issue, not enough money/resources to go around due to the high concentration of excessive wealth in the hands of the few. This isnt people with a few million that Im talking about, its those with many tens or hundreds of millions. The type of people who hand a valuable asset over to a bank to get a secured loan and live off the loan, paying back a very low interest rate whilst not declaring any income and hence not paying a fair share of tax.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

Maybe it’s the type of jobs, many are manual your electricians, plumbers etc that’s why this building if a 1.5 million homes is a total non starter we do t have the people to do it, so unless we open up the borders to allow thise workers in no way you train up all those people, many youngsters probably don’t want to do manual labour either this is where apprenticeships can really help, instead of going to university and getting a degree to work at McDonald’s encourage kids to go into these skilled jobs.
Unfortunately working in the pissing rain isn’t exactly selling it to youngsters many who spend most of the day indoors on a PS5, manual workers can earn a fortune these days but go into any school and there is hardly anything for these sort of skills it’s rightly teaching maths and English but wasting time on religion and to a lesser degree languages when kids from say the age of 14 could be learning skills in building trades using maths etc to show them how useful they are, especially for kids who aren’t academic might steer a generation in the right direction.
University has its place but nowadays it seems very fucker has a degree in some shit subject and yet end up in huge debt serving fries I wonder what the stats are for how many get into really good jobs from the off?

Yes youngsters don’t want to do the jobs their dads did that’s why a lot won’t be able to do any DIY when they eventually leave home and will have to pay someone to put a flat pack together or change a light bulb.

 

[bluenova]

Was having a similar discussion the other day. Everything is ‘far right’ now. The way I always understood it was nazi skinheads or the like, seems that anyone that leans remotely right is now labelled far right.

Oh and before I get labelled it, I didn’t vote brexit and have never voted Tory, UKIP or Reform so am definitely not right leaning in any shape or form.

It is ridiculous how many Tories get labelled far right. Where does that put Farage, or even Tommy Robinson? They're clearly significantly more to the right than plenty of Tories that get given the label.

It's also not helped that so much of social media is US influenced, and they describe what most of the world calls centre right, as far left, or even communism.

I think social media is to blame for a lot balkanisation of politics. Just a couple of decades ago, it was much easier for the main parties to be broad churches, because you had much smaller social groups. You'd be meeting people in person, so would be more likely to see them as similar to you, and you'd be happy with people who had broadly similar views. The bitter arguments were seen at the fringes with the constantly splintering of far left and far right groups.

Now, it's simple to find 1000 people who will agree exactly with your view of the world, and in that echo chamber, it's easy to see everyone else at extreme. If you're now seeing what used to be the centre left as right wing, or from the other side, seeing centre right as left wing, then anyone beyond those has to be 'far'.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I dont think I said immigration was necessarily positive, did I ? I just said its not the root cause of the problems.

Everything fundamentally is a supply and demand issue, not enough money/resources to go around due to the high concentration of excessive wealth in the hands of the few. This isnt people with a few million that Im talking about, its those with many tens or hundreds of millions. The type of people who hand a valuable asset over to a bank to get a secured loan and live off the loan, paying back a very low interest rate whilst not declaring any income and hence not paying a fair share of tax.

No you didn't, I didn't mean to imply that. It's also a very difficult subject to bring up politically as it could inflame the nutters and cause more civil unrest , so I understand why Politicians are careful about not linking it to issues we as a country have. I don't disagree with some of your points on the super wealthy and the mega corporations, they have way too much influence and don't pay their fair share. Big tax dodging business is a real bug bear of mine.

 

[meltonblue]

Was having a similar discussion the other day. Everything is ‘far right’ now. The way I always understood it was nazi skinheads or the like, seems that anyone that leans remotely right is now labelled far right.

Oh and before I get labelled it, I didn’t vote brexit and have never voted Tory, UKIP or Reform so am definitely not right leaning in any shape or form.

Depends on whether people have moved with the Overton window or not, as that’s gone right in itself, the two main parties being prime examples of that and the conservatives in particular. We have normalised some things that would have been considered far right previously though.

That and it goes both ways. Our politics is that dumbed down now and being increasingly Americanised that we speak so much in terms of left or right. Most people have a set of views that can go across the spectrum dependent on the issue, it seems more people, or at least those very vocal about it, seem compelled nowadays to have to side with every argument or viewpoint the side they align to goes with.

 

[meltonblue]

No you didn't, I didn't mean to imply that. It's also a very difficult subject to bring up politically as it could inflame the nutters and cause more civil unrest , so I understand why Politicians are careful about not linking it to issues we as a country have. I don't disagree with some of your points on the super wealthy and the mega corporations, they have way too much influence and don't pay their fair share. Big tax dodging business is a real bug bear of mine.

Ditto. Anyone that went after that would be onto a winner I think and also be one of the main points to counter reform.

 

[bluenova]

Depends on whether people have moved with the Overton window or not, as that’s gone right in itself, the two main parties being prime examples of that and the conservatives in particular. We have normalised some things that would have been considered far right previously though.

That and it goes both ways. Our politics is that dumbed down now and being increasingly Americanised that we speak so much in terms of left or right. Most people have a set of views that can go across the spectrum dependent on the issue, it seems more people, or at least those very vocal about it, seem compelled nowadays to have to side with every argument or viewpoint the side they align to goes with.

I agree on the second part, but if anything, I think the Overton window has moved to the left. Both socially and economically, the 80s were a lot more right wing than society today.

 

[BlueHammer85]

OK understood, FWIW I agree the UK population generally goes for middle of the road politics. I don't really see the UK ever voting for an extreme right wing fascist or extreme left wing government. History tells us its just not what we do.

Whole new ball game with the rise of social media, disinformation and AI.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I know Chairman Starmer couldn't care less but this has hit 3million now

Petition: Call a General Election

I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.

petition.parliament.uk

Pathetic

 

[The perfect fumble]

I agree on the second part, but if anything, I think the Overton window has moved to the left. Both socially and economically, the 80s were a lot more right wing than society today.

Socially yes, economically no.

We want better public services but won't pay the kind of 1960s tax rates that would be required, no one is talking about nationalising the utilities, building council owned homes, bringing about a radical redistribution of wealth in favour of the poor, or seriously combating the stranglehold the south has over the rest of the country and when it comes to the City of London, that's untouchable.

Everyone is touchy-feely and kind, but it's fuck off when it comes to my money.

 

[west didsblue]

I know Chairman Starmer couldn't care less but this has hit 3million now

Petition: Call a General Election

I would like there to be another General Election. I believe the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises they laid out in the lead up to the last election.

petition.parliament.uk

He’s not the only one who couldn’t care less.
Assuming it’s not Labour voters who predominantly signed the petition there’s another 15 million of them who didn’t sign it compared to the 3 million that have, so just 1 in 6 non-Labour voters feel strongly enough about it to sign a pointless petition.

 

[bluenova]

Socially yes, economically no.

We want better public services but won't pay the kind of 1960s tax rates that would be required, no one is talking about nationalising the utilities, building council owned homes, bringing about a radical redistribution of wealth in favour of the poor, or seriously combating the stranglehold the south has over the rest of the country and when it comes to the City of London, that's untouchable.

Everyone is touchy-feely and kind, but it's fuck off when it comes to my money.

In the 80s, the Tories were able to strip back employment protections, and piece by piece take apart all low wage protections.

Can you imagine today, if anyone started talking about 'natural rates of unemployment', or started cutting the minimum wage until it was worthless, and then abolishing it? Council houses weren't being built - they were being sold off. Railways are going to be nationalised, bus companies deregulated, and polling consistently shows that the majority of the public would support energy and water renationalisation.

Going back further, is much more complex, because society was so different, and I wasn't there to understand any of those complexities. But that doesn't change my argument that we're further to the left economically now than we were from the late 70s to mid 90s.

 

[hilts]

Only 3m? 19m people voted for parties other than Labour at the general election. Does this mean that the vast majority of them think he's doing a great job :)

Or is it as silly as the 6m that signed this petition?

Archived Petition: Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.

The government repeatedly claims exiting the EU is 'the will of the people'. We need to put a stop to this claim by proving the strength of public support now, for remaining in the EU. A People's Vote may not happen - so vote now.

petition.parliament.uk

People don't like not getting their own way shocker. I'm not sure the reason behind setting up these petitions in the first place was to placate pant pissers.