The Labour Government

Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Brexit is at the root of it all. Putin used farage, Cambridge analytica and misinformation to bring about Brexit. Boris, trump farage and musk are just his puppets. They work in concert to prey on the mentally vulnerable, low IQ racists to seed anti-EU, pro far right/ fossil fuel and antivax conspiracies and manipulate democracy. One thing labour is doing right is getting us closer to the EU - hopefully rejoining will put an end to this nonsense and undo the recent attack on trans women by the high court.
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You need some new bait.
The current supply is well past its use by date.
 
blueinsa said:
Bob has made his money in the City. So long as someone can serve him his morning coffee before getting the Range Rover washed and heading back to his fully detached he is all good.

The oiks desperately trying to eek out a living for 40 hours on minimum should learn their place in the world according to Bob.
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Deflecting from the argument to attacking the poster? Tsk. You can do better.
 
BobKowalski said:
Deflecting from the argument to attacking the poster? Tsk. You can do better.
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Hardly an attack, I doubt you’re even bruised by it ;-)

41% of London population was not born in the UK and the services sector accounted for a whopping 90% plus of the GDP London contributes.

I doubt the 41% work in the services sector Bob tbh unless you can tell me differently?
 
BobKowalski said:
Yes, they have. We’ve had migration caps/targets/reskilling programs/hostile environments and sending elderly grandmothers back to WI by the powers that be, who I repeat, do not like excessive numbers. It is the last thing that want to see when figures are collated.

‘I love immigrants and the more the merrier’ said no politician ever.

Unfortunately, they do love an economy that booms. And for that you invariably need people because a booming economy relies on people and…well, you know the rest.
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You are absolutely correct. We live in a declining economy with most manufacturing outsourced, a low birthrate and ageing population. In demographic and population terms a ticking time bomb. No politicians seem to have the courage to clearly articulate this and therefore why we actually need immigration and lots of it. That is still different to 'open borders'.

Our political leaders also need the courage to be honest about the challenges presented by large scale immigration.
Strain on public services, housing and education.
The cultural challenge of integration.
The problems faced by some (mainly inner city boroughs) that have seen their bame/immigrant population rise in percentage terms from single digits to over 90% in some cases in around half a century.
Low paid workers undercutting wage structure
The need to accept and manage the risk of extremists being among the migrants streams.

It should be possible to have honest and grown up political discourse/ leadership on all of this but apparently not.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
You are absolutely correct. We live in a declining economy with most manufacturing outsourced, a low birthrate and ageing population. In demographic and population terms a ticking time bomb. No politicians seem to have the courage to clearly articulate this and therefore why we actually need immigration and lots of it. That is still different to 'open borders'.

Our political leaders also need the courage to be honest about the challenges presented by large scale immigration.
Strain on public services, housing and education.
The cultural challenge of integration.
The problems faced by some (mainly inner city boroughs) that have seen their bame/immigrant population rise in percentage terms from single digits to over 90% in some cases.
Low paid workers undercutting wage structure
The need to accept and manage the risk of extremists being among the migrants streams.

It should be possible to have honest and grown up political discourse/ leadership on all of this but apparently not.
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It’s almost as if those demanding even greater numbers of immigration to service the economy they run are the least exposed to the negatives that directly affect the poorest in society.

They don’t want grown up and honest, they just want the masses to shut the fuck up and do as they’re told.
 
BobKowalski said:
Yes, they have. We’ve had migration caps/targets/reskilling programs/hostile environments and sending elderly grandmothers back to WI by the powers that be, who I repeat, do not like excessive numbers. It is the last thing that want to see when figures are collated.

‘I love immigrants and the more the merrier’ said no politician ever.

Unfortunately, they do love an economy that booms. And for that you invariably need people because a booming economy relies on people and…well, you know the rest.
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Yes working age immigrants is a choice, the grandmother is not relevant for obvious reasons. You're giving me why they don't do it not that they have tried hard enough. You're trying to move the goal.pusts. We are all aware of how supply and demand works and who benefits.
 
blueinsa said:
Hardly an attack, I doubt you’re even bruised by it ;-)

41% of London population was not born in the UK and the services sector accounted for a whopping 90% plus of the GDP London contributes.

I doubt the 41% work in the services sector Bob tbh unless you can tell me differently?
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I think I felt a faint tingling sensation. Not entirely unpleasant to be honest.

London is a service economy, the absence of sprawling manufacturing plants in the city is a bit of a clue, and yes that 41% like the remaining 59% will be seeking employment in the services sector. Given the unemployment rate in London is 5%, it is safe to conclude the remaining 95% will be mainly employed in the services sector.

The UK is a 80% service economy, so London reflects this. A quarter of the UK’s tax revenue is generated by London. That 13%, half of which are foreign born, are really pulling their weight.

Hopefully, regions like Lincolnshire can start showing the same work ethic going forward :)
 
blueinsa said:
It’s almost as if those demanding even greater numbers of immigration to service the economy they run are the least exposed to the negatives that directly affect the poorest in society.

They don’t want grown up and honest, they just want the masses to shut the fuck up and do as they’re told.
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Absolutely. The millionaires of Kensington need immigrants and other low paid workers living ten to a room in Grenfell tower etc so they can get cleaners and have staff in the local deli, Starbucks and Tesco express.
If you have to travel from Kensington to where the minimum wage is liveable that's a long way to go for a sandwich at lunchtime!
 
hilts said:
Yes they do it for a wage as we all do, they don't and shouldn't do it for us which is fine because they don't.

That is a fact.
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Yes it is.

I don’t think anyone has suggested people come here to work out of charity or to ‘help out’.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Absolutely. The millionaires of Kensington need immigrants and other low paid workers living ten to a room in Grenfell tower etc so they can get cleaners and have staff in the local deli, Starbucks and Tesco express.
If you have to travel from Kensington to where the minimum wage is liveable that's a long way to go for a sandwich at lunchtime!
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Pret. It’s always Pret. As if working in Pret is some kind of crime against humanity. Tesco Express doesn’t quite stir the same righteous anger.
 
Hertzblue said:
Really ?

So, lets have a look at that ...
In London over half of the available social housing is occupied by a foreign born household. If I was born and raised in London, I am in need of social housing, has my life not been changed ? If those foreign born had not arrived here would my chances of a decent home not be improved.

If I apply for a place at the school of my choice for my child but I cannot get a place because it is oversubscribed due to an influx of migrant families with their children in my area - Has my life not changed ? Has my child'd life not changed?

If I need to go to hospital for an operation but I have to wait ...........

I could go on but I will stop.
The price of immigration is paid for in life chances by the poorest in our society, even Starmer is now admitting that obvious fact.Our politicians just haven't had the courage to admit their mistakes. Look up Mette Frederiksen a social democrat Prime Minister of Denmark and see what she has had the courage to say about this.

Peoples lives have been changed massively and irreversibly for the worse by the scale of immigration in this country.
Your lack of empathy is shameful.
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London's basically a broken city. Over the last thirty or so years, it's essentially become a place where you can be very well off, or relatively poor, and it's very difficult to be anything in between.

Immigrants aren't driving out people who were born and raised in London. House prices were pushed up so high that many Londoners will have had to move out. At the top, there are the lots of people in highly paid jobs, and plenty of foreign born people who are based in London, as it's one of the top few international cities in the World.

The housing for average earners - where we would be in a semi-detached, or a terraced house around Manchester just doesn't exist. I worked for charities when I lived there, and as recently as 1999, when I bought my first flat, the price was reasonable compared with my salary. By the time I was selling my last place to move back to Manchester, in what was one of the few "cheaper" areas, the people viewing were earning 3 to 4 times my salary.

So instead of average earners, you get huge numbers of people house sharing in poor quality accommodation - something that attracts two main groups - young foreigners from Europe, Australia etc., who are happy as they just want to be "in London" - and immigrants from poorer countries, who are doing all the service jobs that the well off need.

And that social housing you hoped to get? In London it was messed up in the 80s with right to buy. Because it was becoming so valuable, much of the good quality housing stock was bought out, often by speculators funding the purchase for people who couldn't afford it on their own. What was left, tended to be the poorest quality houses in the roughest areas, and the tower blocks, which had huge maintenance costs (and of course LAs weren't allowed to use their right to buy money to keep these properties in good condition). This leads in two directions. First, that the housing stock is really low quality, and not in great areas, so again, it attracts people with little choice about where to live. Second, as houses are sold off, the pressure of numbers means that you have to be either statutory homeless, or disabled, to have any chance of rehousing. So, you end up with areas becoming even more impoverished.

London has definitely changed, and that's reflected in the number of immigrants, but the driver of the change came from the wealth pushing people out, rather than the immigrants.
 
bluenova said:
London's basically a broken city. Over the last thirty or so years, it's essentially become a place where you can be very well off, or relatively poor, and it's very difficult to be anything in between.

Immigrants aren't driving out people who were born and raised in London. House prices were pushed up so high that many Londoners will have had to move out. At the top, there are the lots of people in highly paid jobs, and plenty of foreign born people who are based in London, as it's one of the top few international cities in the World.

The housing for average earners - where we would be in a semi-detached, or a terraced house around Manchester just doesn't exist. I worked for charities when I lived there, and as recently as 1999, when I bought my first flat, the price was reasonable compared with my salary. By the time I was selling my last place to move back to Manchester, in what was one of the few "cheaper" areas, the people viewing were earning 3 to 4 times my salary.

So instead of average earners, you get huge numbers of people house sharing in poor quality accommodation - something that attracts two main groups - young foreigners from Europe, Australia etc., who are happy as they just want to be "in London" - and immigrants from poorer countries, who are doing all the service jobs that the well off need.

And that social housing you hoped to get? In London it was messed up in the 80s with right to buy. Because it was becoming so valuable, much of the good quality housing stock was bought out, often by speculators funding the purchase for people who couldn't afford it on their own. What was left, tended to be the poorest quality houses in the roughest areas, and the tower blocks, which had huge maintenance costs (and of course LAs weren't allowed to use their right to buy money to keep these properties in good condition). This leads in two directions. First, that the housing stock is really low quality, and not in great areas, so again, it attracts people with little choice about where to live. Second, as houses are sold off, the pressure of numbers means that you have to be either statutory homeless, or disabled, to have any chance of rehousing. So, you end up with areas becoming even more impoverished.

London has definitely changed, and that's reflected in the number of immigrants, but the driver of the change came from the wealth pushing people out, rather than the immigrants.
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Glad you mentioned right to buy. Traditional cockney residents of the east end cashed in their council houses for a nice little detached in Essex.
 
bluenova said:
London's basically a broken city. Over the last thirty or so years, it's essentially become a place where you can be very well off, or relatively poor, and it's very difficult to be anything in between.

Immigrants aren't driving out people who were born and raised in London. House prices were pushed up so high that many Londoners will have had to move out. At the top, there are the lots of people in highly paid jobs, and plenty of foreign born people who are based in London, as it's one of the top few international cities in the World.

The housing for average earners - where we would be in a semi-detached, or a terraced house around Manchester just doesn't exist. I worked for charities when I lived there, and as recently as 1999, when I bought my first flat, the price was reasonable compared with my salary. By the time I was selling my last place to move back to Manchester, in what was one of the few "cheaper" areas, the people viewing were earning 3 to 4 times my salary.

So instead of average earners, you get huge numbers of people house sharing in poor quality accommodation - something that attracts two main groups - young foreigners from Europe, Australia etc., who are happy as they just want to be "in London" - and immigrants from poorer countries, who are doing all the service jobs that the well off need.

And that social housing you hoped to get? In London it was messed up in the 80s with right to buy. Because it was becoming so valuable, much of the good quality housing stock was bought out, often by speculators funding the purchase for people who couldn't afford it on their own. What was left, tended to be the poorest quality houses in the roughest areas, and the tower blocks, which had huge maintenance costs (and of course LAs weren't allowed to use their right to buy money to keep these properties in good condition). This leads in two directions. First, that the housing stock is really low quality, and not in great areas, so again, it attracts people with little choice about where to live. Second, as houses are sold off, the pressure of numbers means that you have to be either statutory homeless, or disabled, to have any chance of rehousing. So, you end up with areas becoming even more impoverished.

London has definitely changed, and that's reflected in the number of immigrants, but the driver of the change came from the wealth pushing people out, rather than the immigrants.
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It’s the less socially mobile that are the most affected and that’s true up and down the country.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Glad you mentioned right to buy. Traditional cockney residents of the east end cashed in their council houses for a nice little detached in Essex.
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My daughter is studying in London, and she's in an ex-council house. It was 2 beds, but is now 4 beds (living room and a tiny dining room converted to bedrooms), and each student could pay off a £150k mortgage with just their share of the rent.
 
blueinsa said:
Bob has made his money in the City. So long as someone can serve him his morning coffee before getting the Range Rover washed and heading back to his fully detached he is all good.

The oiks desperately trying to eek out a living for 40 hours on minimum should learn their place in the world according to Bob.
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And is SW Scotland one of those places most against immigration despite having few immigrants?
 
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