The Labour Government

Vic said:
I don’t mean to trivialise the issue, especially for those who are just over the threshold to get the WFA, but

Most pensioners are on more than £300 a week.

26 months ago they were on £45 a week less.

We're short of doctors and train drivers. There's no shortage of pensioners.

Without being flippant, that last point is at the heart of it. How do we afford to pay people 20, 30 years pensions when there are three people paying tax for each pensioner?
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So if we have an abundance of something it's okay to shaft a % of them.

If we cant afford pensions then maybe that's something that needs discussing/solving.

Maybe the people in charge of the country could start. I don't remember any of this being in the manifesto though.

Erm.......
 
hilts said:
So if we have an abundance of something it's okay to shaft a % of them.

If we cant afford pensions then maybe that's something that needs discussing/solving.

Maybe the people in charge of the country could start. I don't remember any of this being in the manifesto though.

Erm.......
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I agree. We have an abundance of people who could but won't pay more tax.

If we had a lot more poor people they could vote in a party that would tax the rich people. "For the many, not the few" might have worked for Corbyn but there were too few of the many.
 
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Vic said:
What poverty wages would meet your definition of working class?
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Maybe wrong but 35k is the average wage in the UK, minimum wage just over 20k. 70k for 'driving' a train is the stuff of dreams for 99% of the country.
 
Been a fairly decent week for the country, let’s see if it’s a turning point and people start feeling a little better off.
 
Vic said:
I agree. We have an abundance of people who could but won't pay more tax.

If we had a lot more poor people they could vote in a party that would tax the rich people. "For the many, not the few" might have worked for Corbyn but there were too few of the many.
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Except Starmer didn't say he would take money off the poor did he, so some people would have thought he would protect tte poor.

Fuck me some of you change your spots as soon as you get a whiff of power.
 
tweety said:
Maybe wrong but 35k is the average wage in the UK, minimum wage just over 20k. 70k for 'driving' a train is the stuff of dreams for 99% of the country.
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You can't really conflate the class system with earnings in this day and age. There will be many that consider themselves (myself included) working class despite earning comfortably above the national average; a lot of it comes down to an individuals societal roots and whether their job can be categorized as labour. The classic blue collar jobs.

You won't find many train drivers that consider themselves middle class.
 
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Blue and true said:
You can't really conflate the class system with earnings in this day and age. There will be many that consider themselves (myself included) working class despite earning comfortably above the national average; a lot of it comes down to an individuals societal roots and whether they're job can be categorized as labour. The classic blue collar jobs.

You won't find many train drivers that consider themselves middle class.
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Maybe the modern distinction should be between those who make money from work they do, and those who make money from what other people do.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth yet another 40 pages of distraction on what "working class" means, just because one poster doesn't like Labour's settling pay disputes by going part of the way to restoring the workers' pay in real terms after years of Tory real pay cuts.
 
Vic said:
Maybe the modern distinction should be between those who make money from work they do, and those who make money from what other people do.

Anyway, I'm not sure it's worth yet another 40 pages of distraction on what "working class" means, just because one poster doesn't like Labour's settling pay disputes by going part of the way to restoring the workers' pay in real terms after years of Tory real pay cuts.
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I think your first sentence is the fairest distinction. It's a simplistic starting point, but a starting point nonetheless when it comes to categorizing class.
 
tweety said:
Maybe wrong but 35k is the average wage in the UK, minimum wage just over 20k. 70k for 'driving' a train is the stuff of dreams for 99% of the country.
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Average salary for train drivers is around 54k, starting salaries are around 24k.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
The beef that would be exported would have been farmed to at least the same standard as the UK. Heard a farmers spokesman on the radio say that it’s a very good deal, for both countries.

Then it’s down to you whether you’d buy US beef or stick to what we have now.
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Regardless of standards, I’ve always found it odd that we buy meat from around the world as it is.

Shipping beef from Australia seems foolish to me when you can’t moove in the British countryside for shitloads of cows.

We should be buying as much British produce from independent suppliers as possible.
 
tweety said:
Junior doctors when qualified on £100k+ per year, train drivers on £70+ per year, my heart bleeds. How about the pensioners on £300 PW who've had their fuel allowance taken. Give your head a wobble.
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To be fair - it was a bit of a communications gaffe but the fuel allowance thing was means tested.

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable for pensioners who can afford it, to not get the payment.

My Mum for example - took the payment and just put it towards holidays or shit from the garden centre. Doesn’t need the money at all.

Those who need the support are still eligible for it.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
To be fair - it was a bit of a communications gaffe but the fuel allowance thing was means tested.

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable for pensioners who can afford it, to not get the payment.

My Mum for example - took the payment and just put it towards holidays or shit from the garden centre. Doesn’t need the money at all.

Those who need the support are still eligible for it.
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They should have found a better way to do it and done it a year later l,what I know about the less well off pensioners is they are good at planning ahead for bills as they have so little disposable income.

It was a cunts trick the way it was done especially when you look at the money saved, it was a statement of their economic prudence for the financial institutions as much as anything else.
 
hilts said:
They should have found a better way to do it and done it a year later l,what I know about the less well off pensioners is they are good at planning ahead for bills as they have so little disposable income.

It was a cunts trick the way it was done especially when you look at the money saved, it was a statement of their economic prudence for the financial institutions as much as anything else.
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I don’t agree it was a “cunts trick” but I do agree it wasn’t handled - or at least communicated- in the best way possible.

It’s frustrating because I can see what this govt are trying to achieve but they need someone in the room who is a better strategist and comms person. They are crying out for their Alastair Campbell.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
I don’t agree it was a “cunts trick” but I do agree it wasn’t handled - or at least communicated- in the best way possible.

It’s frustrating because I can see what this govt are trying to achieve but they need someone in the room who is a better strategist and comms person. They are crying out for their Alastair Campbell.
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Don't know fella every decision someone makes especially politicians has repercussions, the question asked will have been who will be affected. They will know some who are only just getting by will get hit, they did it anyhow.

Its the very definition of a cunts trick knowing the outcome but doing it anyway.
 
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