The Labour Government

[BigJoe#1]

So..... yesterday an additional 500 people came across from France....... just let that sink in... 500 in one day and today is quite likely to be worse

What do we do with the 500 that landed yesterday?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Yvette Cooper is a fucking disgrace.... I go back to my thread on Ministers Incompetency.

Where is Border Force....? Ummmm we are working on getting legislation through Parliament,,,,?

When are you going to "smash the gangs"....? Garbled rubbish i.e, nothing

What are the French doing for the money we've given them...? Nothing.... the channel crossers get in the boat further up the coast, and once they're in the boat the French can't touch them...? Really?

 

[bluethrunthru]

You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.

How much income tax will they pay in ££££'s

They could not take their pension and remain tax free. As a pensioner I can assure you anyone getting an extra £50 per month places a value on that cash that is far more than that of any working person.

As for a tax return - its not an onerous job. If you are claiming a private pension 95% of the answers you will be ticking are - N/A, NO, NONE - its people making it out to be a mammoth task that scares people - as happens with pension credit if you work the other way and need to make up a shortage of funds

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Does it need a new centre left party? I’d argue that’s what the Lib Dem’s are, particularly on immigration policy.

Given they also had bringing in PR in their manifesto too, they feel like the right temporary home for a few people at least.

If the leader stopped going down slides/serving ice cream etc he might actually benefit from talking policies.

Our system is broken, in my lifetime it's always been Lab/Con with an occasional irritant of Lib/LibDem/SDP but times have changed the money men have realised they can mobilise people who spark as they walk and Reform on the back of UKip has certainly at the moment become a force.

I'm not sure what Keir can do as it seems Reform is like a black hole gathering mass but, going Reform Lite certainly isn't the answer.

 

[Vic]

You do know pensioners were young people once who worked, struggled and got mortgages, brought up kids, many working two jobs to do so. They did so conforming to the laws, rules and regulations in place at that time. They paid, tax, national insurance and poll tax/council tax, or the rates as it was called before those. You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.
You do also know that not every pensioner voted for Brexit don't you? Do you think none of them have children and grandchildren and wouldn't have voted to leave because of that. Many help out those children and grandchildren and for those who own their own homes and have savings they will very likely leave those to those children and grandchildren.
It's not those who were privileged to actually make it through the minefield of life to pensionable age after grafting for fifty years in many cases, who've fucked this country up for the young. It's politicians.

Politicians eiected by people who did well under those conditions to the extent that after housing costs 60% of pensioners are now in the top 60% of income.

(Which still leaves a lot of pensioners in poverty.)

I love nostalgia. Today's pensioners started work paying basic rate tax at 8/3 in the pound (41.25%). A two-up two-down terraced house near Maine Road cost three times my starting annual salary.

And once again, crucially, the "old age support ratio" (number of working adults per pensioner) gets worse as we live longer and birthrate drops. The birthrate is dropping partly because young people can't afford the accommodation into which to bring a child.

Macmillan was right. We'd never had it so good.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So..... yesterday an additional 500 people came across from France....... just let that sink in... 500 in one day and today is quite likely to be worse

What do we do with the 500 that landed yesterday?

Without violating international law how do propose stopping the boat crossings ?

 

[tweety]

Without violating international law how do propose stopping the boat crossings ?

Are you saying that it would be illegal for the lifeboat service to drop them off at Calais rather than Dover?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Without violating international law how do propose stopping the boat crossings ?

Isn't that what we're giving France shedloads of money - to prevent them crossing?

Personally think we need to stop them crossing into British water... but I did ask the question can you not share Labours vision, be cause try as I might I cannot see what Cooper is doing to prevent this situation (500/day, 12,000 so far this year). Labour are just all ideological talk.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Isn't that what we're giving France shedloads of money - to prevent them crossing?

Personally think we need to stop them crossing into British water... but I did ask the question can you not share Labours vision, be cause try as I might I cannot see what Cooper is doing to prevent this situation (500/day, 12,000 so far this year). Labour are just all ideological talk.

If they're just ideological talk how do you justify them making record ever deportations since 2018 ? including 4 of the largest deportation flights in UK history - how come you don't mention or praise that ?

they are clearly getting stronger at reducing immigration without the gimmick proposals the Tories failed at. Small boat crossings are extremely tough to tackle without breaking international law, they are still working on getting through bills in parliament and working with border forces etc, it's going to take time.

 

[bluenova]

Yvette Cooper is a fucking disgrace.... I go back to my thread on Ministers Incompetency.

Where is Border Force....? Ummmm we are working on getting legislation through Parliament,,,,?

When are you going to "smash the gangs"....? Garbled rubbish i.e, nothing

What are the French doing for the money we've given them...? Nothing.... the channel crossers get in the boat further up the coast, and once they're in the boat the French can't touch them...? Really?

How would you change the law faster? The Border bill had it's third reading yesterday, which is getting close to becoming law. Farage voted against it.

The French have very recently agreed with Cooper to change their own laws, so that they can intercept boats that have already left the shore. It took just a few months to build up a relationship with the French where they're actually interested in helping us solve problems instead of the antagonism of the last decade.

Ultimately, I still believe it's whack-a-mole, and the solution will turn out to be some agreement where people claim asylum outside the UK and are allowed in, and in return all boats can be returned to France. We know who the people are that are coming over, the incentive for risky travel completely disappears, and they are no longer considered "illegal".

Of course, Farage will still call it a betrayal, but it's likely the best solution for any country that accepts refugees (and bear in mind that we accept less than most comparable countries).

 

[tweety]

If they're just ideological talk how do you justify them making record ever deportations since 2018 ? including 4 of the largest deportation flights in UK history - how come you don't mention or praise that ?

they are clearly getting stronger at reducing immigration without the gimmick proposals the Tories failed at. Small boat crossings are extremely tough to tackle without breaking international law, they are still working on getting through bills in parliament and working with border forces etc, it's going to take time.

Are you a speech writer for the labour party conference!
International law, don't make me laugh, it's only the UK that seems to follow it. The French do exactly what suits them and I would do the same.

 

[BigJoe#1]

If they're just ideological talk how do you justify them making record ever deportations since 2018 ? including 4 of the largest deportation flights in UK history - how come you don't mention or praise that ?

they are clearly getting stronger at reducing immigration without the gimmick proposals the Tories failed at. Small boat crossings are extremely tough to tackle without breaking international law, they are still working on getting through bills in parliament and working with border forces etc, it's going to take time.

So.... setting aside the ideological view.... right now what do we do with the imediate problem of the 500 who landed yesterday and the most likely further 500 that will turn up today and tomorrow and the day after and the day after that and so on?

What are Labours plans for dealing with these people? All I've seen so far, after 10 months is...... nothing.

Starmer stood up and told us, pre election what he was going to do, what he neglected to say was how he was hoing to do what he was going to do.... Border Force,.... where is it?

 

[bluenova]

Are you a speech writer for the labour party conference!
International law, don't make me laugh, it's only the UK that seems to follow it. The French do exactly what suits them and I would do the same.

The French accept nearly twice as many asylum seekers as we do.

 

[threespires]

Macmillan was right. We'd never had it so good.

Paternalistic Tory grandee, pragmatic upholder of the post-war consensus, happy to promote a mixed economy and acknowledge the importance of the welfare state. Fast forward a few decades and he'd probably be chucked out of the Labour party for being off message !

 

[bluethrunthru]

The French accept nearly twice as many asylum seekers as we do.

He knows that coz Reform say it all the time so it must be true

 

[metalblue]

If they're just ideological talk how do you justify them making record ever deportations since 2018 ? including 4 of the largest deportation flights in UK history - how come you don't mention or praise that ?

they are clearly getting stronger at reducing immigration without the gimmick proposals the Tories failed at. Small boat crossings are extremely tough to tackle without breaking international law, they are still working on getting through bills in parliament and working with border forces etc, it's going to take time.

How many people has Labour ‘deported’? – Full Fact

Some politicians and media have referred to the total number of immigration returns as the number of people being “deported”, but most returns aren’t officially counted as “deportations”.

fullfact.org

 

[hampshireblue]

So.... setting aside the ideological view.... right now what do we do with the imediate problem of the 500 who landed yesterday and the most likely further 500 that will turn up today and tomorrow and the day after and the day after that and so on?

What are Labours plans for dealing with these people? All I've seen so far, after 10 months is...... nothing.

Starmer stood up and told us, pre election what he was going to do, what he neglected to say was how he was hoing to do what he was going to do.... Border Force,.... where is it?

More to the point, what would your friends in Reform do? Bearing in mind that it is the norm for the governments of first world nations to remain within the boundaries set by international law-otherwise you join the likes of Putin and Netanyahu.

 

[BlueHammer85]

How many people has Labour ‘deported’? – Full Fact

Some politicians and media have referred to the total number of immigration returns as the number of people being “deported”, but most returns aren’t officially counted as “deportations”.

fullfact.org

' the official data we have does suggest that returns have been higher in Labour’s first few months than in equivalent periods under the previous government. The quarterly totals for Q3 (8,827) and Q4 (8,531) 2024 were higher than any other quarterly figures since the 2019 general election ' so still very high deportation results.

 

[bluethrunthru]

You do know pensioners were young people once who worked, struggled and got mortgages, brought up kids, many working two jobs to do so. They did so conforming to the laws, rules and regulations in place at that time. They paid, tax, national insurance and poll tax/council tax, or the rates as it was called before those. You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.
You do also know that not every pensioner voted for Brexit don't you? Do you think none of them have children and grandchildren and wouldn't have voted to leave because of that. Many help out those children and grandchildren and for those who own their own homes and have savings they will very likely leave those to those children and grandchildren.
It's not those who were privileged to actually make it through the minefield of life to pensionable age after grafting for fifty years in many cases, who've fucked this country up for the young. It's politicians.

as you are reluctant to respond I'll tell you - State Pension £230.25 per week and add in £49.50 private pension gives you £12567 so you' be up to pay standard rate IC on £67 is liable to pay £13.40 pa or 26p per week.

 

[Oldham Exile]

You do know pensioners were young people once who worked, struggled and got mortgages, brought up kids, many working two jobs to do so. They did so conforming to the laws, rules and regulations in place at that time. They paid, tax, national insurance and poll tax/council tax, or the rates as it was called before those. You do also know that if those very pensioners have even a small private pension which they were encouraged, or in some cases forced to contribute to, whether they wanted to or not, they will still be paying tax. I'm talking about a private pension of more than £49.50 a month which will then take them over the meagre tax threshold of £12,570 a year when added to their state pension.
You do also know that not every pensioner voted for Brexit don't you? Do you think none of them have children and grandchildren and wouldn't have voted to leave because of that. Many help out those children and grandchildren and for those who own their own homes and have savings they will very likely leave those to those children and grandchildren.
It's not those who were privileged to actually make it through the minefield of life to pensionable age after grafting for fifty years in many cases, who've fucked this country up for the young. It's politicians.

Superb post