The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

You still havent told us which "real" Tories you want back in power-except Truss of course!

Oh and...

The average UK salary is around £37,430 per year, according to Forbes, while the median salary is around £34,963. However, these figures vary significantly based on factors like age, location, and industry.

1. didn't warrant a response
2. OK, stand corrected. I am sure you can multipy £37 x 1.6 instead of £27k.

 

[stonerblue]

I think it's that sort of attitude that has contributed to Reform smashing the polls, tbh. e.g. calling everyone right wing thugs. I am likely going to vote Reform and am neither a racist nor a coward, thanks. Just someone who recognizes that the country is broken and Labour cannot EVER be the answer, unless complete oblivion is the objective. They will have everyone in the poor house if left to continue.

Does it never occur to you Labour voters that under the socialist and pseudo socialist shite governments we've had in the UK for the past 30 years, the UK's prosperity has fallen dramatically. 20 years ago the average American earned about the same as the average Brit. Today we earn less than 2/3rd of what they earn. Imagine if the UK average wage today was £40k not £27k. Just imagine how much more tax the government would be collecting to pay for public services. Imagine how much better off everyone would be.

And yet, STILL, you lot want to vote for poverty. I find it bizarre TBH that after all this time, decades of watching socialist economies do poorly, you STILL don't get it.

Err...uk governments in the last 30 years?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just checking you mean Thatcherism that people eventually rejected.

Not entirely but elements of it, yes. Just checking, are you supporting Labour idealogies that people rejected in 1970, 1979 and 2010?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Err...uk governments in the last 30 years?

Er what about them?

 

[stonerblue]

Er what about them?

Mostly tory wasn't it?

 

[Vic]

Not entirely but elements of it, yes. Just checking, are you supporting Labour idealogies that people rejected in 1970, 1979 and 2010?

Ideologies? Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown? I don't think they had an ideology to reject.

 

[Vic]

Mostly tory wasn't it?

No, even the Tory governments were apparently quasi-socialist according to Chippy (apart from Truss).

 

[Chippy_boy]

Mostly tory wasn't it?

I meant 30 years as a rough number not 20 or 40, and over roughly 30 year, we've had roughly 50% Labour and 50% conservative governments, have we not?

Anyway look, I only popped in to see how people were thinking, 1 year into this ombi-shambles.

It's very clear to me that the vast majority of Labour supporters are well intentioned. I just happen to think you are all completely wrong in thinking that Labour can ever be the answer. I am beyond depressed that the UK has gone down such a path for the next 4 years at least, but I wish you all no ill will (which sadly, doesn't seem to be something that can be said for some Labour supporters views of people like me).

Have a great day all.

 

[mayo31]

The slight fly in your ointment is that the country (and indeed every other country) has been progressively moving to the right, not the left. Labour getting in in the UK is an aberration caused by voter apathy and 14 years of some dross Tory governments, nobbled by COVID and the war in Ukraine. Remember only 1 person in 5 of the electorate actually voted for this current shower.

Unless the UK economy takes a HUGE turn for the better, AND Starmer shows some real progress on stopping both legal and illegal immigration, then it is a slam dunk that Farage will win the next GE. As an outside possibility he may have to form a coalition government with the Tories, but there's no way on earth he's partnering with Labour, is there.

And I give Starmer zero chance of turning things around. His successor, Raynor, less than zero.

God help us if that **** Farage was to win

Should be called the idiot Party

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Rubbish, but have a nice day anyway.

You make me laugh. It’s not people like me who want someone like Badenoch in charge of the Tories, then jumps ship to Reform when they realise that this bunch of Tories really are a shit show.

It’s not me who conflates past events so that they can say it’s all somebody else’s fault.

We are where we are after numerous world events that have taken a toll on our country, made worse by 15 years of Tory ineptitude, callousness, and downright stupidity, in some cases.

And you wanted more of that? Even their own supporters couldn’t be arsed to vote for them.

 

[BrianW]

We have had forty-odd years of neo-liberalism, privatisation and cuts in public expenditure under governments of various labels. It hasn't worked.

The idea that we should be better off going even further in that direction is literally incredible.

Of course, some people would be better off. The ultra-rich.

The root of the present discontent is the ever-widening gap between the ultra-rich and almost everyone else, where 1% of the population hoard a huge percentage of the total wealth, far more than they could spend in five lifetimes.

What statistical evidence there is suggests that the happiest, most contented countries are those with relatively small wealth gaps. In other words, Scandinavia, not the USA.

(For clarity, a relatively small wealth gap does not mean that the CEO and the janitor get the same money. I find one has to spell this stuff out.)

 

[Vic]

I meant 30 years as a rough number not 20 or 40, and over roughly 30 year, we've had roughly 50% Labour and 50% conservative governments, have we not?

Anyway look, I only popped in to see how people were thinking, 1 year into this ombi-shambles.

It's very clear to me that the vast majority of Labour supporters are well intentioned. I just happen to think you are all completely wrong in thinking that Labour can ever be the answer. I am beyond depressed that the UK has gone down such a path for the next 4 years at least, but I wish you all no ill will (which sadly, doesn't seem to be something that can be said for some Labour supporters views of people like me).

Have a great day all.

It's not ill will. It's frank astonishment that anyone could think the last 14 years of Tory + a bit of Lib Dem austerity are not the prime reason for public services being so awful (compared to after 13 years of Labour) - and probably why US salaries have (if you're right) outstripped ours - deliberate wage suppression during those 14 years.

And further astonishment that so many people think Reform "couldn't do any worse". If ever there was a view based on hope rather than evidence, that's it. (If Reform can square the circle of saving money in local councils and providing better local services, that would be evidence - but that looks already unlikely.)

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's not ill will. It's frank astonishment that anyone could think the last 14 years of Tory + a bit of Lib Dem austerity are not the prime reason for public services being so awful (compared to after 13 years of Labour) - and probably why US salaries have (if you're right) outstripped ours - deliberate wage suppression during those 14 years.

And further astonishment that so many people think Reform "couldn't do any worse". If ever there was a view based on hope rather than evidence, that's it. (If Reform can square the circle of saving money in local councils and providing better local services, that would be evidence - but that looks already unlikely.)

But Vic, you completely neglect to take any account of events.

First of all, the Tories inhereted a country that was broke after Brown spent at the money bailing out the banks. We had a £150bn deficit, i.e. going further and futher into the red at the rate of £150bn per year, so SOMETHING had to be done. Cuts to public services were (sadly) essential. And since then we've had huge disruption caused by Brexit, and then COVID and later the war in Ukraine.

It's completely unreasonable to disregard all of this and say that the state of the country today is entirely the Tories' fault. Of course they have been a bit of a shambles politcally and the Liz Truss budget was delivered very badly etc etc, but the above HUGE economic backdrop cannot be ignored.

And finally, OBVIOUSLY, spend more on public services, they get better. Spend less on them, they get worse. No shit Sherlock. There is NOTHING to be proud of, taking more and more money of people to spend on public services and then bragging about how much you are spending on public services. If Starmer et al were making personal sacrifices then fair enough, but no. It's like you nicking £50 quid out of my wallet and then making a big show about you making a £50 charity donation.

Anyways, I am clearly never going to convince you or anyone else on this thread, likely. So over and out, but I hope you may reflect upon the above for just 10 seconds. Cheers!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Even their own supporters couldn’t be arsed to vote for them.

LOL. A bit like the Labour Party ;-)

Never forget that 80% of the electorate in 2024, did not vote for this shower.

 

[hilts]

I think it's that sort of attitude that has contributed to Reform smashing the polls, tbh. e.g. calling everyone right wing thugs. I am likely going to vote Reform and am neither a racist nor a coward, thanks. Just someone who recognizes that the country is broken and Labour cannot EVER be the answer, unless complete oblivion is the objective. They will have everyone in the poor house if left to continue.

Does it never occur to you Labour voters that under the socialist and pseudo socialist shite governments we've had in the UK for the past 30 years, the UK's prosperity has fallen dramatically. 20 years ago the average American earned about the same as the average Brit. Today we earn less than 2/3rd of what they earn. Imagine if the UK average wage today was £40k not £27k. Just imagine how much more tax the government would be collecting to pay for public services. Imagine how much better off everyone would be.

And yet, STILL, you lot want to vote for poverty. I find it bizarre TBH that after all this time, decades of watching socialist economies do poorly, you STILL don't get it.

I'm not sure using average wage is particularly good, I would check out the poverty rates of adults, children and poverty gap. You really don't want to be poor in America.

 

[Brewster's millions]

But Vic, you completely neglect to take any account of events.

First of all, the Tories inhereted a country that was broke after Brown spent at the money bailing out the banks. We had a £150bn deficit, i.e. going further and futher into the red at the rate of £150bn per year, so SOMETHING had to be done. Cuts to public services were (sadly) essential. And since then we've had huge disruption caused by Brexit, and then COVID and later the war in Ukraine.

It's completely unreasonable to disregard all of this and say that the state of the country today is entirely the Tories' fault. Of course they have been a bit of a shambles politcally and the Liz Truss budget was delivered very badly etc etc, but the above HUGE economic backdrop cannot be ignored.

And finally, OBVIOUSLY, spend more on public services, they get better. Spend less on them, they get worse. No shit Sherlock. There is NOTHING to be proud of, taking more and more money of people to spend on public services and then bragging about how much you are spending on public services. If Starmer et al were making personal sacrifices then fair enough, but no. It's like you nicking £50 quid out of my wallet and then making a big show about you making a £50 charity donation.

Anyways, I am clearly never going to convince you or anyone else on this thread, likely. So over and out, but I hope you may reflect upon the above for just 10 seconds. Cheers!

He’s also ignoring - or perhaps more accurately is ignorant of the fact - that the last Budget delivered by the Labour ahead of the 2010 election actually targeted a larger tightening of fiscal policy, and a larger decline in the deficit, than Osborne actually managed to achieve during 2010 to 2015.

Yet still they push this Tory austerity narrative, and argue that austerity was the choice of the Tories and the Tories alone. Utterly false.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

LOL. A bit like the Labour Party ;-)

Never forget that 80% of the electorate in 2024, did not vote for this shower.

Personally, I don’t stick by one party and prefer to see them as the elected government of the time, that way I can hold people, not parties, to account.

As for that shower, looking at it from an unbiased point of view, this government has done more for its people within 12 months than the tthe likes of Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak (were there more?) did in over 15 years. And I’ll make judgement on that at the end of this Parliament, not after an initial period where they are trying to clean up the absolute shit show that was left behind.

 

[Vic]

But Vic, you completely neglect to take any account of events.

First of all, the Tories inhereted a country that was broke after Brown spent at the money bailing out the banks. We had a £150bn deficit, i.e. going further and futher into the red at the rate of £150bn per year, so SOMETHING had to be done. Cuts to public services were (sadly) essential. And since then we've had huge disruption caused by Brexit, and then COVID and later the war in Ukraine.

It's completely unreasonable to disregard all of this and say that the state of the country today is entirely the Tories' fault. Of course they have been a bit of a shambles politcally and the Liz Truss budget was delivered very badly etc etc, but the above HUGE economic backdrop cannot be ignored.

And finally, OBVIOUSLY, spend more on public services, they get better. Spend less on them, they get worse. No shit Sherlock. There is NOTHING to be proud of, taking more and more money of people to spend on public services and then bragging about how much you are spending on public services. If Starmer et al were making personal sacrifices then fair enough, but no. It's like you nicking £50 quid out of my wallet and then making a big show about you making a £50 charity donation.

Anyways, I am clearly never going to convince you or anyone else on this thread, likely. So over and out, but I hope you may reflect upon the above for just 10 seconds. Cheers!

And having to bail out the capitalist banks? The Tories wouldn't have done that?

 

[Chippy_boy]

And having to bail out the capitalist banks? The Tories wouldn't have done that?

Of course they would. Doesn't change the facts thought does it, that in 2010, the Tories inherited an economy in a complete mess.

You can argue they didn't do the right things to improve it, but some recognition of the obstacled faced over the past 14 years, would not go amiss.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Personally, I don’t stick by one party and prefer to see them as the elected government of the time, that way I can hold people, not parties, to account.

As for that shower, looking at it from an unbiased point of view, this government has done more for its people within 12 months than the tthe likes of Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak (were there more?) did in over 15 years. And I’ll make judgement on that at the end of this Parliament, not after an initial period where they are trying to clean up the absolute shit show that was left behind.

And how had it done this? By adding crippling tax and regulation burden to companies, driving down growth and employment, fucking over the farmers, trying to stiff the disabled, screwing the pensioners and pushing wealth creators out of the UK in their droves.

Fucking well done. Bravo.