The Labour Government

[BlueAnorak]

The new Labour Government are more like a watered down Tory Government. I'll give them a chance, but they haven't been good since they've got into power. Starmer is far too indecisive and changes his mind/opinion like the weather. The country needs a stronger leader who isn't scared of making decisions that will upset people.

Who that is I have no idea. Nigel Farrage is too far right to be a Prime minister in this country.

Watered down?
You think the Tories would have got rid of the winter fuel allowance or killed growth by increasing ENICs?

 

[hampshireblue]

Labour are destroying the green belt near me. The infrastructure isn't in place to support this influx, traffic is already bad and local services are exhausted. Lovely views are also being decimated. Nice work

Where is it you're talking about and what is it being "destroyed" for.

If it's any consolation, the green belt behind where we used to live was "destroyed" in 2016 to build 120 new houses. So it's been going on for years. But you do sound a bit like a NIMBY.

 

[M18CTID]

Watered down?
You think the Tories would have got rid of the winter fuel allowance or killed growth by increasing ENICs?

I know Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis are cunts but what the fuck have Tottenham Hotspur’s owners got to do with this?

 

[BlueAnorak]

I know Daniel Levy and Joe Lewis are cunts but what the fuck have Tottenham Hotspur’s owners got to do with this?

ENICs = Employer National Insurance Contributions.
Clearly you haven't a scooby about running a business.

 

[hampshireblue]

You sound like a fucking moron and thick far useless bastard

Thanks. It sounds like you've had too much of something. Come back in the morning when you're a bit more lucid and let us know the background to your post.

 

[M18CTID]

ENICs = Employer National Insurance Contributions.
Clearly you haven't a scooby about running a business.

And clearly you haven’t a scooby when someone is posting with their tongue firmly in cheek.

 

[hampshireblue]

Thanks for the personal apology. You know who you are. I hope all is well.

 

[Damocles]

ENICs = Employer National Insurance Contributions.
Clearly you haven't a scooby about running a business.

Clarkied lol

 

[Chippy_boy]

Until they get rid of Millibrain and his pathetic infatuation with net stupid zero, your bills are only going up.

We've already bunged billions of subsidies into "clean fucking pointless energy', which could have been better spent on bringing your bills down... Or caring for the vulnerable. But no, thsr utter nob head is hell bent on wasting your money so we can reduce global emissions by less than 1 percent. The utter dickhead.

And why will your bills never come down? Because when the wind stops and it is dark, we still need 100% power generation capacity or else we have power cuts. So with 100% renewables we ALSO need 100% spare conventional capacity. In short, we have to pay for two electricity generation systems, not one.

And further, when you look at the lifetime cost of wind and solar, including the manufacturing, maintenance and replacement cost, it's not even cheap.

The man is an utter imbecile.

Sorry to quote my own post, but just to add, we are sitting on vast quantities of shale gas and north sea oil reserves, yet the cretinous government rather than exploit our own cheap local resources, would rather import expensive stuff from as far as the US. This is mind-bendingly stupid, financially and environmentally.

And all this nonsense whilst China builds a new coal-fired power station every week.

"In 2024, <in China> construction started on 94.5 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power plants, the highest level in a decade. Since a typical large coal plant is about 1 GW, this translates to construction starting on nearly two large plants per week."

We could hugely reduce our energy costs, saving households thousands and help our industries to grow, by simply using what we have rather than importing it.

But Millibrain has other plans: The financial ruin of the UK.

 

[Damocles]

And why will your bills never come down? Because when the wind stops and it is dark, we still need 100% power generation capacity or else we have power cuts. So with 100% renewables we ALSO need 100% spare conventional capacity. In short, we have to pay for two electricity generation systems, not one.

Batteries exist. Massive ones capable of storing a huge amount of energy that can (and is) later used when the renewable source output drops. The technology isn't quite there yet at scale but it's improved 10 fold in the last 20 years. Renewables are the future either way. Also worth noting that capacity spikes are an acceptable risk on the National Grid. Even before the days of renewables, at half time in a big England game when people used to all go and switch the kettle on at the same time then we borrowed capacity from the European/French grids in order to avoid brownouts. We still do aswell, we've just built a second massive interconnector that will double the capacity exchange between the UK and France. Pretty much all energy networks (outside Texas) tend to send each other energy when they need it.

And all this nonsense whilst China builds a new coal-fired power station every week.

"In 2024, <in China> construction started on 94.5 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power plants, the highest level in a decade. Since a typical large coal plant is about 1 GW, this translates to construction starting on nearly two large plants per week."

People think that there is a competition in renewable energy and Green Tech between all these different nations. There is no competition. China won that competition before the Americans even worked out that there in a technological race. There are more Green Tech billionaire entrepreneurs in China than in any other country in the world. They have massive capacity in renewables and are constantly funding them and building them.

China, not being a dogmatic country though, also understands that renewables are a medium term solution that will catapult them into the world's leading economic power. But that in order to industrialise and modernise some of the poorer parts of its incredibly humongously large country, it needs energy now. China isn't mass building coal plants because it doesn't care about renewables, it's building coal plants because it cares about civic expansion.

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy

China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world. But to end its continued dependence on fossil fuels, it must now move ahead with planned reforms to its national electricity system.

e360.yale.edu

In 2022, China installed roughly as much solar capacity as the rest of the world combined, then doubled additional solar in 2023.

Today, China has more than 80 percent of the world’s solar manufacturing capacity. The extraordinary scale of China’s renewables sector output has driven down prices worldwide, and this is a key factor in reducing the cost barrier to renewable systems for poorer countries. Today China not only holds important positions in wind and battery technologies, but a Chinese company, BYD, has become the world’s biggest EV manufacturer, and China is poised to pose a formidable global challenge in all aspects of electric transportation to established vehicle brands.

Clean energy generated a record-high 44% of China’s electricity in May 2024, pushing coal’s share down to a record low of 53%, despite continued growth in demand.

Clean energy generated a record-high 44% of China’s electricity in May 2024, pushing coal’s share down to a record low of 53%, despite continued growth in demand.

As I say, this competition is already over because they actually invested while we sat around making a culture war out of simple high school level science. It's one of the great displays of incredible incompetence by the West in recent times. We've literally given up trillions of pounds in future revenue to argue about the wind. A stunning display of arrogance.

 

[stonerblue]

Add it to the list! Wouldn't be needed if they took immigration seriously.

I thought all immigrants lived in fancy hotels?

 

[metalblue]

You don't believe the price cap has fallen?

How has government policy influenced that?

 

[BobKowalski]

Until they get rid of Millibrain and his pathetic infatuation with net stupid zero, your bills are only going up.

We've already bunged billions of subsidies into "clean fucking pointless energy', which could have been better spent on bringing your bills down... Or caring for the vulnerable. But no, thsr utter nob head is hell bent on wasting your money so we can reduce global emissions by less than 1 percent. The utter dickhead.

And why will your bills never come down? Because when the wind stops and it is dark, we still need 100% power generation capacity or else we have power cuts. So with 100% renewables we ALSO need 100% spare conventional capacity. In short, we have to pay for two electricity generation systems, not one.

And further, when you look at the lifetime cost of wind and solar, including the manufacturing, maintenance and replacement cost, it's not even cheap.

The man is an utter imbecile.

Always amuses me when Tories and Righties start frothing over renewable and clean energy as if dirty and non-renewable energy is somehow desirable.

Even more amusing when the phasing out of coal for electricity production was carried out under Tory or Tory led Govts until the 0% milestone was achieved in October 2024 which was *checks notes* three months into the Labour Govt.

Finally, they all worship at the alter of growth yet are steadfastly resistance to change or technological advancement. If it was up to your average Tory we would still be transporting people and goods by horse drawn barges and carriages, which to be fair would have been better for the environment, but not so good for the growth of the economy.

You can hear their arguments against ICE engines. “You want to fuel a vehicle with a highly inflammable liquid which could explode into a fireball? And we have to refuel it OURSELVES from filling stations scattered all over the country which will have huge tanks of this dangerous fuel buried underground? Are you mad? The cost, let alone the risk to life and limb, would be huge! Does a horse burst into flame when you feed it a bale of hay? What about the farmers producing the hay and their livelihood? Grooms, stable hands, vets, carriage and barge building industries - all gone!”

 

[BobKowalski]

Sorry to quote my own post, but just to add, we are sitting on vast quantities of shale gas and north sea oil reserves, yet the cretinous government rather than exploit our own cheap local resources, would rather import expensive stuff from as far as the US. This is mind-bendingly stupid, financially and environmentally.

And all this nonsense whilst China builds a new coal-fired power station every week.

"In 2024, <in China> construction started on 94.5 gigawatts (GW) of new coal-fired power plants, the highest level in a decade. Since a typical large coal plant is about 1 GW, this translates to construction starting on nearly two large plants per week."

We could hugely reduce our energy costs, saving households thousands and help our industries to grow, by simply using what we have rather than importing it.

But Millibrain has other plans: The financial ruin of the UK.

And the hysteria goes up a notch. We’ve had this conversation about China leading the way in renewable energy and investing heavily in future tech, but to recap (from Wiki)

‘China produced 32% of global renewable electricity, followed by the United States (11%), Brazil (7.0%), Canada (4.7%) and India (4.3%). Renewable investment reached almost $500 billion globally in 2022, amounting to 83% of new electric capacity that year. The renewable energy industry employs almost 14 million people.’

Now we can either rise to the challenge or we can cry about the good old days with coal fires in the hearth and snow at Christmas and whine like little bitches.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And the hysteria goes up a notch. We’ve had this conversation about China leading the way in renewable energy and investing heavily in future tech, but to recap (from Wiki)

‘China produced 32% of global renewable electricity, followed by the United States (11%), Brazil (7.0%), Canada (4.7%) and India (4.3%). Renewable investment reached almost $500 billion globally in 2022, amounting to 83% of new electric capacity that year. The renewable energy industry employs almost 14 million people.’

Now we can either rise to the challenge or we can cry about the good old days with coal fires in the hearth and snow at Christmas and whine like little bitches.

So what? Who cares when they are producing a VAST amount more than us in terms of coal-fired energy? Your point is frankly irrelevant.

Did you consider that they are investing more than anyone else in renewables because they are a bigger economy than anyone bar the US by an order of magnitude? And that their agenda is to sell the stuff? Or that they have set a net-zero target so far into the long grass that they can forget about it?

No, I don't suppose you did. Doesn't fit your agenda.

No instead we must cripple our economy - ruin our economy in fact, driving all manufacturing out of the UK - with totally uncompetitive energy prices, make everyone the UK poorer, all to lower global our CO2 which in total represent less than 1% of the global total. Whilst China and the US - the two biggest CO2 producers, don't give a toss and continue to push up CO2 emmissions. So the net result of all our efforts is global CO2 goes up not down anyway.

This is self-inflicted mutilation of our standard of living.

Anyone who thinks this is all a good idea, is bonkers.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Always amuses me when Tories and Righties start frothing over renewable and clean energy as if dirty and non-renewable energy is somehow desirable.

Even more amusing when the phasing out of coal for electricity production was carried out under Tory or Tory led Govts until the 0% milestone was achieved in October 2024 which was *checks notes* three months into the Labour Govt.

Finally, they all worship at the alter of growth yet are steadfastly resistance to change or technological advancement. If it was up to your average Tory we would still be transporting people and goods by horse drawn barges and carriages, which to be fair would have been better for the environment, but not so good for the growth of the economy.

You can hear their arguments against ICE engines. “You want to fuel a vehicle with a highly inflammable liquid which could explode into a fireball? And we have to refuel it OURSELVES from filling stations scattered all over the country which will have huge tanks of this dangerous fuel buried underground? Are you mad? The cost, let alone the risk to life and limb, would be huge! Does a horse burst into flame when you feed it a bale of hay? What about the farmers producing the hay and their livelihood? Grooms, stable hands, vets, carriage and barge building industries - all gone!”

Utter tripe, from Always to gone!

First, I was never supportive of idiotic "green" initiatives, no matter which party put them forward. Second, there is nothing "dirty" about gas-fired electricity generation, and no CO2 is not a poison, it is plant food. What is certainly dirty is lithium and cobalt mining, but again, doesn't fit your narrative to mention that, does it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Batteries exist. Massive ones capable of storing a huge amount of energy that can (and is) later used when the renewable source output drops. The technology isn't quite there yet at scale but it's improved 10 fold in the last 20 years. Renewables are the future either way. Also worth noting that capacity spikes are an acceptable risk on the National Grid. Even before the days of renewables, at half time in a big England game when people used to all go and switch the kettle on at the same time then we borrowed capacity from the European/French grids in order to avoid brownouts. We still do aswell, we've just built a second massive interconnector that will double the capacity exchange between the UK and France. Pretty much all energy networks (outside Texas) tend to send each other energy when they need it.



People think that there is a competition in renewable energy and Green Tech between all these different nations. There is no competition. China won that competition before the Americans even worked out that there in a technological race. There are more Green Tech billionaire entrepreneurs in China than in any other country in the world. They have massive capacity in renewables and are constantly funding them and building them.

China, not being a dogmatic country though, also understands that renewables are a medium term solution that will catapult them into the world's leading economic power. But that in order to industrialise and modernise some of the poorer parts of its incredibly humongously large country, it needs energy now. China isn't mass building coal plants because it doesn't care about renewables, it's building coal plants because it cares about civic expansion.

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy

China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world. But to end its continued dependence on fossil fuels, it must now move ahead with planned reforms to its national electricity system.

e360.yale.edu

View attachment 162109

Clean energy generated a record-high 44% of China’s electricity in May 2024, pushing coal’s share down to a record low of 53%, despite continued growth in demand.



As I say, this competition is already over because they actually invested while we sat around making a culture war out of simple high school level science. It's one of the great displays of incredible incompetence by the West in recent times. We've literally given up trillions of pounds in future revenue to argue about the wind. A stunning display of arrogance.

Why has China set a net zero target of 2060 then, not 2050 like everyone else?

You completely mistake China's motivations for investing in solar and wind technologies. It is primarily to sell PRODUCT to everyone else, like they've been doing for the past 30 years+

Their CO2 emmissions continue to rise as they build more and more coal-fired power stations.

If people in the UK are ideologically committed to net zero then that is up to them. I think it's mad but it's a free country (ish) so people can think what they like. But they must accept there's a price to pay for it. It's no use on the one hand being on the net zero band waggon and on the other, complaining that our electricity costs are so high. They would be lower were we not spending - and had not spent - so much on renewals subsidies. And lower still had we exploited the reserves of gas and oil we already have. The exploitation of the US' shale gas reserves has played a large part in the growth of their economy in recent years, in the stark contrast to the stagnation of ours.

 

[hampshireblue]

How has government policy influenced that?

It was tongue in cheek. There is at least one "contributor" that thinks the government have a direct influence on everything from utility prices to his car insurance( apart from VAT and IPT) of course. As usual he's always quick to criticise but absolutely no comment when prices go to his advantage.

 

[M18CTID]

Did they promise lower bills?

As has already been explained to you by more than one poster, Labour said they were aiming to get the average annual household energy bill reduced by £300 by 2030. Not by 2025.

Instead of continuing to bang that drum, shouldn’t you be asking yourself why you’ve got £1200 of your own money earning interest in your energy supplier’s bank account instead of it earning interest in your own account? At the same time, you might want to ask them why the fuck they’ve put your monthly payments up by around 30%, despite your account being £1200 in credit

 

[Chippy_boy]

Batteries exist. Massive ones capable of storing a huge amount of energy that can (and is) later used when the renewable source output drops. The technology isn't quite there yet at scale but it's improved 10 fold in the last 20 years. Renewables are the future either way. Also worth noting that capacity spikes are an acceptable risk on the National Grid. Even before the days of renewables, at half time in a big England game when people used to all go and switch the kettle on at the same time then we borrowed capacity from the European/French grids in order to avoid brownouts. We still do aswell, we've just built a second massive interconnector that will double the capacity exchange between the UK and France. Pretty much all energy networks (outside Texas) tend to send each other energy when they need it.



People think that there is a competition in renewable energy and Green Tech between all these different nations. There is no competition. China won that competition before the Americans even worked out that there in a technological race. There are more Green Tech billionaire entrepreneurs in China than in any other country in the world. They have massive capacity in renewables and are constantly funding them and building them.

China, not being a dogmatic country though, also understands that renewables are a medium term solution that will catapult them into the world's leading economic power. But that in order to industrialise and modernise some of the poorer parts of its incredibly humongously large country, it needs energy now. China isn't mass building coal plants because it doesn't care about renewables, it's building coal plants because it cares about civic expansion.

How China Became the World’s Leader on Renewable Energy

China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world. But to end its continued dependence on fossil fuels, it must now move ahead with planned reforms to its national electricity system.

e360.yale.edu

View attachment 162109

Clean energy generated a record-high 44% of China’s electricity in May 2024, pushing coal’s share down to a record low of 53%, despite continued growth in demand.



As I say, this competition is already over because they actually invested while we sat around making a culture war out of simple high school level science. It's one of the great displays of incredible incompetence by the West in recent times. We've literally given up trillions of pounds in future revenue to argue about the wind. A stunning display of arrogance.

Having had time to read and digest all of your post now, the following quote struck me:

"China, not being a dogmatic country though, also understands that renewables are a medium term solution that will catapult them into the world's leading economic power. But that in order to industrialise and modernise some of the poorer parts of its incredibly humongously large country, it needs energy now. China isn't mass building coal plants because it doesn't care about renewables, it's building coal plants because it cares about civic expansion."

Well precisely. We should also not be dogmatic. I am not proposing we abandon all our renewables efforts, merely that we are being extremely dogmatic about it. It makes no sense to import gas when we have our own. It makes no sense to import oil (or steel) when we can make our own. We have resources we should be using, not shutting them off due to ideological dogma.

Our high energy costs (highest in the developed world) are driving to point where manufacturing in the UK is no longer viable. This is a terrible policy, especially considering that growth is the only way out of our fiscal malaise.