The Labour Government

threespires said:
Probably. but my big frustration is I can't seem to get people who support Reform to explain to me why it's appealing. I totally get it as a protest vote but I really would like to understand what is actively attracting people, not to be argumentative for the sake of it but genuinely understand people's thought process.
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For a lot of people I think it comes down to not Labour and not Conservative.

Those considering it more thoughtfully I suspect are interested in reducing immigration, and also critically, getting the state off our backs, getting rid of woke shite, DEI and other such bollocks, and giving people personal freedoms back. People want less meddling with their lives, I think.
 
hilts said:
I'm a green voter we have no chance -:)

Anyhow the biggest chance of change is to change the main parties by protest votes and from within the parties themselves. I wished the protest votes were going to the greens or that new left wing party that may be happening but they ain't.
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Greens. LOL
 
threespires said:
That's essentially GS's view (re shift the Labour position from inside) and him and you are probably right. My concern with this would be that if that doesn't happen toute suite there is a possibility that a winning protest vote for Reform could cause a level of damage it takes the country a long time to recover from. I know lots of people don't believe Reform have the legs to win an election but it's not hard to envisage a scenario where Tory and Labour continue to bleed votes to Reform and the centre and left vote gets split.
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I'm not concerned about reform winning an election at this point but what people have to understand is we are all only one vote, we may think we are smarter, more moral or just more realistic but if the centists spend all their time arguing about how great 0.1 % growth is or how the budget can be improved for not much difference felt amongst the country then they may wake up one day and wonder what the fuck went wrong.

Not enough people have fire in their bellies or a radical bone in their body. The Labour Party is turning into the Tories in double quick time but too many centrists are blind to it or just don't care because they won for once. Their time is spent defending them .They need to wake up and this goes for the true left as well because reform and the voters are pushing the agenda and it doesnt matter how wrong their policies are they are uniting as a group. What direction are Labour and the Tories gonna go to fight them off and save there own bacon?

If this Labour party becomes the Tories then the right actually won the last election and while this denial continues they will win the next one as well.
 
threespires said:
That's essentially GS's view (re shift the Labour position from inside) and him and you are probably right. My concern with this would be that if that doesn't happen toute suite there is a possibility that a winning protest vote for Reform could cause a level of damage it takes the country a long time to recover from. I know lots of people don't believe Reform have the legs to win an election but it's not hard to envisage a scenario where Tory and Labour continue to bleed votes to Reform and the centre and left vote gets split.
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The protest vote for Reform is an interesting one, as if people can then see Reform winning, do they still vote in protest to get them in and face the consequence, or do they turn to others to ensure their protest is taken seriously?

Personally, I’m at the point where I’m thinking of promoting Reform and influencing others to do so. Let’s see what they can do as it won’t affect me, dependant on what their actual policies would be.

And after seeing how certain parts of the Labour Party are trying to implode it from within, surely there’s no alternative in the likes of the performative LDs or Greens?
 
Chippy_boy said:
For a lot of people I think it comes down to not Labour and not Conservative.

Those considering it more thoughtfully I suspect are interested in reducing immigration, and also critically, getting the state off our backs, getting rid of woke shite, DEI and other such bollocks, and giving people personal freedoms back. People want less meddling with their lives, I think.
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100% something I have been saying for quite a while now. Both main parties have proven themselves to be incapable of running the country.

As for Reforms current popularity, say what you like, call me all the names under the sun but it is 100% a reflection of Labours abysmal performance in government.
 
.... so, the Government is changing the way they will change the way council grants are allocated which in turn will mean some London Boroughs could lose up to 60% of their grants to the "RED WALL" seats.... cuts in services or increased council tax or heaven forbid both, incoming. Brace yourselves London.

I bet @BlueHammer85 is looking forward to this...
 
I’ve not read through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been asked.

If they can vote at 17 can they stand for election as an MP at 17? Now that really would concern me. We’ve got some very strange MPs as it is, we’d be over run with strange ones if that happened.
 
Eccles Blue said:
I’ve not read through the whole thread so apologies if this has already been asked.

If they can vote at 17 can they stand for election as an MP at 17? Now that really would concern me. We’ve got some very strange MPs as it is, we’d be over run with strange ones if that happened.
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Part of the plan.

Parachute some kids into safe seats with their Tony Blair foundation doctrinarian.
 
YouGov's latest voting intention poll for 18 to 24 year olds, puts Labour at 28%, followed by the Greens on 26% and the Liberal Democrats on 20%.

In contrast, the Tories on 9% and Reform UK on 8%.

We absolutely need to give 16 and 17 year olds the vote to, er, strengthen democracy. Voting intentions surely have nothing to do with it.
 
Don’t we always hear that Reform have the youth vote sewn up through their clever use of Tik Tok algorithms?
 
Chippy_boy said:
YouGov's latest voting intention poll for 18 to 24 year olds, puts Labour at 28%, followed by the Greens on 26% and the Liberal Democrats on 20%.

In contrast, the Tories on 9% and Reform UK on 8%.

We absolutely need to give 16 and 17 year olds the vote to, er, strengthen democracy. Voting intentions surely have nothing to do with it.
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Why do the youth detest the racist grifting Reform party so much ?
 
bluenova said:
Having listened to the interview, I don't think it was. I do believe she's misrepresenting what she said in the first place. If she'd not gone further in her initial letter, she wouldn't have had a problem in the first place.

I've just said in my reply to DK that it sounds to me like she's setting up a straw man in the R4 interview, by making a different, more reasonable argument, and then suggesting her critics were silly to disagree.
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I suppose the question we have to ask ourselves is is her basic premise wrong? I struggle to see anything remotely wrong in what she is saying.

People use the term racism far too loosely, you only have to look at the immigration debate on here. Not wanting immigration isn’t in itself racist, not wanting immigrants of a certain ethnicity would be. After all we are blessed with an English language is rich in words and there are perfectly suitable words to describe someone who does not want immigration (or high immigration). Sadly racism (at least antidotally for me) is on the rise, social media allows this toxic messaging on its platforms and the algorithms do the rest - I posted previously how I paused on a post that I thought was about history (which I love) but ended up just being racist shit and my feed was then inundated for a few days from one post, these cunts that want to get folk worked up about something or other know exactly what they are doing and how to snare folk. @BlueHammer85 Is spot on when he rants about social media. I don’t know the answers or where to begin other than to turn it off, except BM!

To your second point, you may well be right, Abbott may well have provoked this fight so she can cuddle up with Corbyn again of course. It would make an element of sense. If so Starmer has shown again he isn’t very strategic and walked straight in to her trap.
 
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BridgyDids said:
Don’t we always hear that Reform have the youth vote sewn up through their clever use of Tik Tok algorithms?
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Urban myth I suspect, looking at the poll above. And considering 16 and 17 year olds are all broke and regard anyone with more than 50p in the bank as being loaded and therefore fair game for higher taxes.

Plus 4 years is a long time until next election. That's a lot of time to get your social media brainwashing working if you are Labour.
 
Chippy_boy said:
YouGov's latest voting intention poll for 18 to 24 year olds, puts Labour at 28%, followed by the Greens on 26% and the Liberal Democrats on 20%.

In contrast, the Tories on 9% and Reform UK on 8%.

We absolutely need to give 16 and 17 year olds the vote to, er, strengthen democracy. Voting intentions surely have nothing to do with it.
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Of course the left know, at least historically, young people are more likely to be socialist until they hit 30 and start paying more taxes, have kids and a mortgage then they think fuck that I’m a conservative. Those who don’t transition tend to just hang around blue moon raging against the machine until their beloved Labour Party becomes tories for them. Of course there are some very notable socialists on this thread who stick to their beliefs- you know the ones, @Postman Pep , @Don Karleone , @TinFoilHat , @Rascal etc etc (although our Russ is a full on communist nutter but I do genuinely love the bloke) - the others are just good old proper leftie tossers who I actually agree with on many things, it’s only the how to get there we generally disagree on.

Anyroad I digress, I don’t know where they got the figures from but Sky news reported yesterday when the 16 year old vote story broke, that their numbers had Labour showing 28% and next was reform on 20% of the 16/17 age group. Obviously it’s not like Sky to big up Farage but still, I’d like to think their polling was real.
 
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I haven't waded through umpteen recent pages but have I got this right?

People who've been critical of Labour for breaking manifesto promises (or doing things that weren't mentioned in the manifesto "but should have been") are now up in arms because Labour is keeping a manifesto pledge to lower voting age...
 
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