The Labour Government

[BlueHammer85]

and opportunities to win my enthusiasm back

How ? we are being bombarded by doom and gloom daily, looks at BigJoe and Chippy daily attacks against Labour constantly - Going mad and starting a thread about the Homelessness minister (fair enough) but not a squeak about the Renters Rights Bill that Labour have bought in that will save millions from eviction and costs etc - that's just one example.

Its so easy to constantly berate and be negative, social media has gone into overdrive since Labour have come in whipping people up to be angry, it won't slow down (with any party) and any sign of good news will be squashed and buried straight away.

 

[blueinsa]

How ? we are being bombarded by doom and gloom daily, looks at BigJoe and Chippy daily attacks against Labour constantly - Going mad and starting a thread about the Homelessness minister (fair enough) but not a squeak about the Renters Rights Bill that Labour have bought in that will save millions from eviction and costs etc - that's just one example.

Its so easy to constantly berate and be negative, social media has gone into overdrive since Labour have come in whipping people up to be angry, it won't slow down (with any party) and any sign of good news will be squashed and buried straight away.

Yep, Chippy and Joe will be the downfall of Labour no doubt pmsl

 

[hilts]

That’s what you got out of @hilts post?

That will be the moral fortitude part. After 14 years of high horsing they didn't half fall off quick and look comfortable rolling in the shit.

Anyhow the best about Hans post was how he started with........ well.she was unlikely to have known much about it, then....

However as a counter balance what did you have to say about the countless abuses by the last govt? Like Johnson being sacked as foreign minister for incomptetence and refusing to leave his grace and favour home or the time he occupied the multi million pound property of the exiled tax dodger Lord Bamford for free or ...... well there were loads of abuses like Badenoch claiming for utility bills at her parents house you are welcome to remind us of those breeches that were barely reported.

I mean he's obviously a genius to remember exactly what you posted or didn't especially the barely reported one that you might not even have been aware of.

I mean it obviously wasn't just a well yeah but erm some tories and their supporters you know..........

Anyhow everyone is welcome Bob was rather impressed with Hans counter balance post

:-)

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yep, Chippy and Joe will be the downfall of Labour no doubt pmsl

No, they’re just right wing lappies on here that love Farage and Steven Yaxley.
The bigger picture is how many people are being swept up on social media and how much difference that is making.

 

[blueinsa]

No, they’re just right wing lappies on here that love Farage and Steven Yaxley.
The bigger picture is how many people are being swept up on social media and how much difference that is making.

SO YOU KEEP SAYING OVER AND OVER……

Hammer? You would make a great Dippers fan with your victim mentality.

 

[inbetween]

Not to mention the fact that there were 4 enormous challenges to deal with:

1. The truly dire state of the public finances in 2010
2. Brexit
3. COVID
4. War in Ukraine

Of course the Tories made plenty of blunders but no government would have found it easy navigating those hurdles. If the last year is anything to go by, Labour may well have done worse, we will never know.

I think we sometimes believe that a change of government will somehow resolve problems and result in something different but currently it won't, can't and never will. We're screwed plain and simple. It's almost now like we need somebody like Reform or Corbyn's lot to get in just to prove how perilous the situation really is.

Labour are now talking of raising taxes or cuts, it'll be one or the other but both will result in meaningless changes to the finances and the public state of everything will not change. It's the equivalent of finding the £20 that we're short to pay the £200 minimum payment on a credit card bill. Forget about the £5k that we owe.

I actually think the parties enjoy fighting over fringe issues such as immigration or whether men are women or even foreign issues that are irrelevant to us such as Palestine. It distracts from the realities that they can't answer such as what is the actual industrial strategy for the UK over the next decade or how will the North be revitalised. They're not arsed about these things.

It's like city pre-ADUG. We were always shit and we had okay seasons but we were never going to win the title or Champions League. We could spend a few million here and there but that just sustained the same old shite or worse. The difference was made with money, resources and leadership and no UK government has had a single ounce of any of this for a very long time.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think we sometimes believe that a change of government will somehow resolve problems and result in something different but currently it won't, can't and never will. We're screwed plain and simple. It's almost now like we need somebody like Reform or Corbyn's lot to get in just to prove how perilous the situation really is.

Labour are now talking of raising taxes or cuts, it'll be one or the other but both will result in meaningless changes to the finances and the public state of everything will not change. It's the equivalent of finding the £20 that we're short to pay the £200 minimum payment on a credit card bill. Forget about the £5k that we owe.

I actually think the parties enjoy fighting over fringe issues such as immigration or whether men are women or even foreign issues that are irrelevant to us such as Palestine. It distracts from the realities that they can't answer such as what is the actual industrial strategy for the UK over the next decade or how will the North be revitalised. They're not arsed about these things.

It's like city pre-ADUG. We were always shit and we had okay seasons but we were never going to win the title or Champions League. We could spend a few million here and there but that just sustained the same old shite or worse. The difference was made with money, resources and leadership and no UK government has had a single ounce of any of this for a very long time.

I think that's a great post and pretty well sums up the situation. We are in a perilously deep hole and unless something changes, it could get really ugly with a downward spiral of increasing tax rates, declining tax receipts, worsening public services, still higher tax rates and tax receipts falling further. You cannot just keep increasing taxes and expect receipts to go up and up. It doesn't work like that.

There IS a way out of this though I think, if any government is prepared to take the bull by the horns. If we accept we can't trim public services costs much (we can a bit with productivity improvements but only in the margins), and we can't keep putting taxes up, then there's only 1 other option and that's borrowing.

The problem is it's already perilously high, and to make matters worse, the government has said it won't borrow to fund day to day spending. But the patient - our economy - is on the operating theatre table with the ECG flatlining so SOMETHING has to be done to bring it back to life, and that means tax cuts and support for businesses. We should court the markets, explaining clearly a well-thought out plan whereby we are to borrow another (say) £100bn as a *short term* measure to get the economy going. The plan will be clearly laid out that this money will be paid back in a relatively short timeframe - say 5 or so. I think so long as that's clearly thought out and there's a clear plan, I don't see why it should spook the markets and push up bond yields. But the BoE and the markets need to be onboard. That's the bit Truss got wrong.

The extra borrowing would be used exclusively to drive business growth: Reverse the NI hike, significantly subsidize business energy costs and to provide grants and incentives. If we can get growth back to 2% or 3%.. even 4% might be achievable - then we can climb out of this hole and tax receipts will start to increase.

But carry on "business as usual" and unless there's some out-of-the-blue world-wide event that dramatically boosts our economy, we're going to continue to spiral downwards.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yep, Chippy and Joe will be the downfall of Labour no doubt pmsl

I did't realise I was THAT influential ;-) I'll have a word with Keith next time I'm round.

 

[Hertzblue]

What do you see Reform doing differently that will really improve public finances (and would you be happy with the impact those decisions would have on the average person)?

Reform and the Tories approach to worsening public finances has and always will be to sell off core services like the NHS. That will have a dramatic impact on 90% of the UK population (for the worse).

I don't think any party can offer any short term fixes to our public finances, certainly not Reform. Unfortunately as a nation we live way beyond our means and I think we all need to brace for an impact on our living standards in the short term until we find our way back to a sustainable path.
For me I am not looking for any party to offer me personally any greater prosperity, I am looking for who can put the country back on that sustainable path, who has the political will and courage to tackle the seemingly intractable issues that have locked us into this state of decline. I believe those issues are Immigration, Welfare reform, Civil service reform, Re-shaping our workforce /Education reform, Housebuilding, Energy strategy and cultural reform - Free speech and roll back of anti colonialist / Woke initiatives in our society.
I am not fussed who takes this on , it could be Reform, it could be the Conservatives , it is unlikely to be Labour but if Corbyn and Jezbollah take the internationalist progressive on all things types out of the Labour Party and we see a different Labour Party that looks something like the Maurice Glassman Blue Labour group i.eeconomically left but socially conservative and focused on the working people of this country , it could even be them.
Whoever forms the next government it will be a hell of a job .

 

[BobKowalski]

I think that's a great post and pretty well sums up the situation. We are in a perilously deep hole and unless something changes, it could get really ugly with a downward spiral of increasing tax rates, declining tax receipts, worsening public services, still higher tax rates and tax receipts falling further. You cannot just keep increasing taxes and expect receipts to go up and up. It doesn't work like that.

There IS a way out of this though I think, if any government is prepared to take the bull by the horns. If we accept we can't trim public services costs much (we can a bit with productivity improvements but only in the margins), and we can't keep putting taxes up, then there's only 1 other option and that's borrowing.

The problem is it's already perilously high, and to make matters worse, the government has said it won't borrow to fund day to day spending. But the patient - our economy - is on the operating theatre table with the ECG flatlining so SOMETHING has to be done to bring it back to life, and that means tax cuts and support for businesses. We should court the markets, explaining clearly a well-thought out plan whereby we are to borrow another (say) £100bn as a *short term* measure to get the economy going. The plan will be clearly laid out that this money will be paid back in a relatively short timeframe - say 5 or so. I think so long as that's clearly thought out and there's a clear plan, I don't see why it should spook the markets and push up bond yields. But the BoE and the markets need to be onboard. That's the bit Truss got wrong.

The extra borrowing would be used exclusively to drive business growth: Reverse the NI hike, significantly subsidize business energy costs and to provide grants and incentives. If we can get growth back to 2% or 3%.. even 4% might be achievable - then we can climb out of this hole and tax receipts will start to increase.

But carry on "business as usual" and unless there's some out-of-the-blue world-wide event that dramatically boosts our economy, we're going to continue to spiral downwards.

I am sure in a world gripped by a trade war and the chaos and uncertainty it brings, the markets will nod sagely and agree that borrowing £100 billion to cut taxes is just the very thing the UK economy needs.

Repay it back in five years you say? Well, that sounds very reasonable. Perhaps we could make it £200 billion and really go to town? Excellent! Just sign here.

 

[BobKowalski]

I don't think any party can offer any short term fixes to our public finances, certainly not Reform. Unfortunately as a nation we live way beyond our means and I think we all need to brace for an impact on our living standards in the short term until we find our way back to a sustainable path.
For me I am not looking for any party to offer me personally any greater prosperity, I am looking for who can put the country back on that sustainable path, who has the political will and courage to tackle the seemingly intractable issues that have locked us into this state of decline. I believe those issues are Immigration, Welfare reform, Civil service reform, Re-shaping our workforce /Education reform, Housebuilding, Energy strategy and cultural reform - Free speech and roll back of anti colonialist / Woke initiatives in our society.
I am not fussed who takes this on , it could be Reform, it could be the Conservatives , it is unlikely to be Labour but if Corbyn and Jezbollah take the internationalist progressive on all things types out of the Labour Party and we see a different Labour Party that looks something like the Maurice Glassman Blue Labour group i.eeconomically left but socially conservative and focused on the working people of this country , it could even be them.
Whoever forms the next government it will be a hell of a job .

That’s a lot of ‘reform’, oh and it includes ‘cultural and educational reform’? That doesn’t sound remotely Orwellian. No more free thinkers in the UK! Bring back colonialism and know your place! Yes! That means you, boy, you know who you are!

Click your shiny heeled boots together three times, Dorothy and you too will be transported to the sunlit uplands. I know it didn’t work out first time around, but trust me, this time it will be different.

 

[BobKowalski]

That will be the moral fortitude part. After 14 years of high horsing they didn't half fall off quick and look comfortable rolling in the shit.

Anyhow the best about Hans post was how he started with........ well.she was unlikely to have known much about it, then....

However as a counter balance what did you have to say about the countless abuses by the last govt? Like Johnson being sacked as foreign minister for incomptetence and refusing to leave his grace and favour home or the time he occupied the multi million pound property of the exiled tax dodger Lord Bamford for free or ...... well there were loads of abuses like Badenoch claiming for utility bills at her parents house you are welcome to remind us of those breeches that were barely reported.

I mean he's obviously a genius to remember exactly what you posted or didn't especially the barely reported one that you might not even have been aware of.

I mean it obviously wasn't just a well yeah but erm some tories and their supporters you know..........

Anyhow everyone is welcome Bob was rather impressed with Hans counter balance post

:-)

And I was still correct. I was correct then. I am correct now and I will be correct forevermore.

Let it go lads, let it go.

 

[hilts]

And I was still correct. I was correct then. I am correct now and I will be correct forevermore.

Let it go lads, let it go.

Hans II has arrived folks :-)

Something in the water, first Chipster then Bob.

 

[lefty goldblatt]

 

[Vic]

That’s what you got out of @hilts post?

I didn't read it all. It looked a bit like a long way to say, "Yes but what about...?"

 

[Hertzblue]

That’s a lot of ‘reform’, oh and it includes ‘cultural and educational reform’? That doesn’t sound remotely Orwellian. No more free thinkers in the UK! Bring back colonialism and know your place! Yes! That means you, boy, you know who you are!

Click your shiny heeled boots together three times, Dorothy and you too will be transported to the sunlit uplands. I know it didn’t work out first time around, but trust me, this time it will be different.

Here we go , and the alternative ......
Lets just stay as we are folks , put your trust in Bob and his everlasting Ponzi scheme, no need to change anything, its all a bit of a bother, it will all work out fine...until it doesn't.

 

[Metal Biker]

No, they’re just right wing lappies on here that love Farage and Steven Yaxley.
The bigger picture is how many people are being swept up on social media and how much difference that is making.

That's one hell of a claim to make.

Hope you can back it up

 

[Postman Pep]

I am not fussed who takes this on , it could be Reform, it could be the Conservatives , it is unlikely to be Labour but if Corbyn and Jezbollah take the internationalist progressive on all things types out of the Labour Party and we see a different Labour Party that looks something like the Maurice Glassman Blue Labour group i.eeconomically left but socially conservative and focused on the working people of this country , it could even be them.
Whoever forms the next government it will be a hell of a job .

Lol. Can't imagine why you are such a fan of a man who has earned the moniker of "Labour's MAGA lord'


Aside from that he was involved in the leadership campaign of 4% Liz in 2015 and has a long association with Mcsweeney, hence the recent articles that have piqued your interest.

There are 'blue labour' fingerprints all over this government yet day after day you are in here pissing your pants about some phantom left wing menace that is holding them back.

 

[BobKowalski]

Here we go , and the alternative ......
Lets just stay as we are folks , put your trust in Bob and his everlasting Ponzi scheme, no need to change anything, its all a bit of a bother, it will all work out fine...until it doesn't.

I’m not convinced colonialism is the answer. Who do you have earmarked for invasion and conquest? Let me know some countries you have on the list and I’ll check out the feasibility of the UK colonising them.

 

[Manchester33]

I think that's a great post and pretty well sums up the situation. We are in a perilously deep hole and unless something changes, it could get really ugly with a downward spiral of increasing tax rates, declining tax receipts, worsening public services, still higher tax rates and tax receipts falling further. You cannot just keep increasing taxes and expect receipts to go up and up. It doesn't work like that.

There IS a way out of this though I think, if any government is prepared to take the bull by the horns. If we accept we can't trim public services costs much (we can a bit with productivity improvements but only in the margins), and we can't keep putting taxes up, then there's only 1 other option and that's borrowing.

The problem is it's already perilously high, and to make matters worse, the government has said it won't borrow to fund day to day spending. But the patient - our economy - is on the operating theatre table with the ECG flatlining so SOMETHING has to be done to bring it back to life, and that means tax cuts and support for businesses. We should court the markets, explaining clearly a well-thought out plan whereby we are to borrow another (say) £100bn as a *short term* measure to get the economy going. The plan will be clearly laid out that this money will be paid back in a relatively short timeframe - say 5 or so. I think so long as that's clearly thought out and there's a clear plan, I don't see why it should spook the markets and push up bond yields. But the BoE and the markets need to be onboard. That's the bit Truss got wrong.

The extra borrowing would be used exclusively to drive business growth: Reverse the NI hike, significantly subsidize business energy costs and to provide grants and incentives. If we can get growth back to 2% or 3%.. even 4% might be achievable - then we can climb out of this hole and tax receipts will start to increase.

But carry on "business as usual" and unless there's some out-of-the-blue world-wide event that dramatically boosts our economy, we're going to continue to spiral downwards.

The concern with that strategy though is that throwing £100b into an economy that’s struggling with high inflation will only exacerbate the problem more.

There will be loads of winners (in the form of political donators) who do incredibly well off the back of said loan, but for the average man on the street it could mean higher prices and a real-term loss of wealth.

I think the most obvious area in need of reform is pensions - but no politician would go there because it’s career suicide.