The Liverpool Thread

[Blue Hefner]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants, we bought English players in the summer because we HAD to, you have to have a certain amount of English players in your squad, ours was full of foreign shit from when Rafa was in charge.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match. Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there). Adam does what he's there for, but can be so fucking frustrating at times. Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

1st L'pool didn't 'have' to buy English at all, it just that King Kenny has no imagination and wants L'pool to play like a team from the 80s. as a result you no have a load of expensive English shit

I would suggest the reason you haven't had many shots against your goal is that you've played at home to teams like Norwich, Swansea and S'land, all 3 would be happy for a 0-0 at any ground in the country

 

[PSmyth07]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants, we bought English players in the summer because we HAD to, you have to have a certain amount of English players in your squad, ours was full of foreign shit from when Rafa was in charge.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match. Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there). Adam does what he's there for, but can be so fucking frustrating at times. Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=274792.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ind ... c=274792.0</a>

And that has almost 2000 posts.

 

[BlueCityfan]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants, we bought English players in the summer because we HAD to, you have to have a certain amount of English players in your squad, ours was full of foreign shit from when Rafa was in charge.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match. Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there). Adam does what he's there for, but can be so fucking frustrating at times. Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=274792.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/ind ... c=274792.0</a>

And that has almost 2000 posts.

Lol, looking back at that threads OP. The thread was started to laugh at man city's waste of money on transfers.

Since then....the 24m flop Lescott is beginning to look like a top defender. Milner tearing up united's defence and looking like the real deal. Dzeko coming good, Balo aswell. Kolarov being decent. Clichy is a bargain. Yaya and Silva are top players. Aguero is pretty good aswell.:D

But it looks like Liverpool are the ones wasting money now, Henderson, Downing, Carroll....

Backfired much?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

We got rid of alot of "dead wood" at the start of the season, for instance Jovanovic who was apprently on around 90k a week which is a fucking joke, Poulsen who i imagine was on around 40-50k and others like konchesky, ngog, insua and we have also sent joe cole out on loan who was on around 100k a week.

At the end of last season when we sold torres and bought in andy carroll we still made a small profit after all the in's and outs, thats not to say that i dont think we over spent on carroll, of course we did and no liverpool fan denys that and it was pretty much a panic buy.

At the start of this season we had a net spend of around 36mil which really is not over the top, i dont understand why people think we would be in some kind of debt and struggling with funds.

Hi mate. Good to have you on. Always enjoy debating with proper Liverpool fans.

You certainly did clear out a lot of dead-wood in the summer and the general consensus seems to be that the incoming players were self-financing because of that and that you might have even eased some pressure on the wage bill as well.

I've not studied your last accounts in detail but the problem I see is that you showed a loss of £20m on turnover of £184m and that included a profit on player trading. Plus those accounts were the last ones to include CL income which was probably in the region of £40-45m. The increased shirt naming and kit deals will absorb some of that but nowhere near all of it. We won't know for another 6 months until the next sert accounts are published but my very strong suspicion is that the loss of CL income will just about be balanced out by the increase in commercial income and the saving on servicing the acquisition debt incurred by H&G.

Also, no one really knows how NESV financed the LFC purchase (they admit their previous investments were financed by a mixture of personal capital and debt) and what sort of return they are looking for. so it's possible that the debt servicing paid out of LFC under H&G might simply be replaced by some sort of dividend or other withdrawal under NESV, in the same way the Glazers have sneaked a fair bit out of United in various ways.

The key question, as I see it, is what will NESV's reaction be if top four isn't achieved this summer and what decisions will they take? Do they understand enough about the way football works to make the right decisions or will they just decide to cut costs and run a tighter ship, much in the same way that Lerner has done at Villa? Do they take the plunge and seek the finance for a new stadium when that will divert funds away from the team? There are some very difficult decisions to be taken and there's no doubt that these decisions are very dependent on being able to count on a steady flow of CL-enhanced revenue.

-- Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:32 pm --

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

That's a bit rich when, as has already been pointed out, there is a substantial thread about us on RAWK.

Personally I've never had a problem with Liverpool or their fans in any way, having admired the great teams of the 70's and 80's (even when they were sticking four and five past us at Maine Road). In fact, Liverpool fans I've met stand out as they tend to be the most knowledgeable about football in general. I think most on here would have agreed with that up to relatively recently.

There's no doubt that some fans of the other "big" clubs have had their noses put out of joint by our (in their eyes) undeserved good fortune and there's a significant faction on RAWK in that camp, which has upset people on here. Even I've begun to think that a period in the wilderness would be good to teach them some humility. There's also a fair number who talk sensibly about us, it has to be said, as I'd expect from Liverpool fans. They seem to "get" Balotelli far more than any other set of fans from what I've seen, probably becasue they appreciate a bit of a character more than most.

But I think that the thinking of many LFC fans has been clouded by a long run of success and they don't really see the problems and challenges you've got as objectively as some outsiders. I have to say that the mood has become much more realistic on RAWK in recent weeks as they've begun to realise it will be a long, hard road back. The way the landscape looks just at the moment, there are three teams who could genuinely grab fourth spot and you aren't leading that particular pack.

 

[LFC_2005]

We got rid of alot of "dead wood" at the start of the season, for instance Jovanovic who was apprently on around 90k a week which is a fucking joke, Poulsen who i imagine was on around 40-50k and others like konchesky, ngog, insua and we have also sent joe cole out on loan who was on around 100k a week.

At the end of last season when we sold torres and bought in andy carroll we still made a small profit after all the in's and outs, thats not to say that i dont think we over spent on carroll, of course we did and no liverpool fan denys that and it was pretty much a panic buy.

At the start of this season we had a net spend of around 36mil which really is not over the top, i dont understand why people think we would be in some kind of debt and struggling with funds.

Hi mate. Good to have you on. Always enjoy debating with proper Liverpool fans.

You certainly did clear out a lot of dead-wood in the summer and the general consensus seems to be that the incoming players were self-financing because of that and that you might have even eased some pressure on the wage bill as well.

I've not studied your last accounts in detail but the problem I see is that you showed a loss of £20m on turnover of £184m and that included a profit on player trading. Plus those accounts were the last ones to include CL income which was probably in the region of £40-45m. The increased shirt naming and kit deals will absorb some of that but nowhere near all of it. We won't know for another 6 months until the next sert accounts are published but my very strong suspicion is that the loss of CL income will just about be balanced out by the increase in commercial income and the saving on servicing the acquisition debt incurred by H&G.

Also, no one really knows how NESV financed the LFC purchase (they admit their previous investments were financed by a mixture of personal capital and debt) and what sort of return they are looking for. so it's possible that the debt servicing paid out of LFC under H&G might simply be replaced by some sort of dividend or other withdrawal under NESV, in the same way the Glazers have sneaked a fair bit out of United in various ways.

The key question, as I see it, is what will NESV's reaction be if top four isn't achieved this summer and what decisions will they take? Do they understand enough about the way football works to make the right decisions or will they just decide to cut costs and run a tighter ship, much in the same way that Lerner has done at Villa? Do they take the plunge and seek the finance for a new stadium when that will divert funds away from the team? There are some very difficult decisions to be taken and there's no doubt that these decisions are very dependent on being able to count on a steady flow of CL-enhanced revenue.

-- Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:32 pm --

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

That's a bit rich when, as has already been pointed out, there is a substantial thread about us on RAWK.

Personally I've never had a problem with Liverpool or their fans in any way, having admired the great teams of the 70's and 80's (even when they were sticking four and five past us at Maine Road). In fact, Liverpool fans I've met stand out as they tend to be the most knowledgeable about football in general. I think most on here would have agreed with that up to relatively recently.

There's no doubt that some fans of the other "big" clubs have had their noses put out of joint by our (in their eyes) undeserved good fortune and there's a significant faction on RAWK in that camp, which has upset people on here. Even I've begun to think that a period in the wilderness would be good to teach them some humility. There's also a fair number who talk sensibly about us, it has to be said, as I'd expect from Liverpool fans. They seem to "get" Balotelli far more than any other set of fans from what I've seen, probably becasue they appreciate a bit of a character more than most.

But I think that the thinking of many LFC fans has been clouded by a long run of success and they don't really see the problems and challenges you've got as objectively as some outsiders. I have to say that the mood has become much more realistic on RAWK in recent weeks as they've begun to realise it will be a long, hard road back. The way the landscape looks just at the moment, there are three teams who could genuinely grab fourth spot and you aren't leading that particular pack.

Were 3 points off 4th and play Chelsea this weekend, i don't see any reason we can't get a win there, we did last season and we always up our game against the big teams, bar getting hammered 4-0 at Spurs when we were down to 9 men. So i don't see how were not in the race for 4th, seeing as were still only 11 games into the season, anything can happen between now and May.

I don't use RAWK so i didn't see that thread but personally i actually like City and have a lot of mates that are City fans. And as for Balotelli he's a complete legend haha

 

[fbloke]

I suspect the issue with how the club purchase was financed is more a long term issue than a sort term one as there is no immediate need to panic.

The problem of the stadium for LFC is more pressing (as it is with THFC) as the club loses millions year on year but the club has no clear direction so its at least 5 years before a new or extended ground could be counted on for revenue.

The biggest issue for LFC right now is that CL spot and a squad strong enough to cope.

Lets not forget that LFC will be like City in pot 3 or 4 for the draw very soon as its the last 5 years of coefficients that count.

The big decision then for the owners right now is whether to stick or twist on squad investment.

And that could have an impact for a decade if they get it wrong.

 

[Matty]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread... .

You'll find there's also a United thread, an Arsenal one, a Spurs one and probably a few others too. This is the "General Football Forum" so things other than City are discussed here. Pretty self explanatory really.

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants

Saying and doing are different things entirely. Henry's involvement at the Red Sox should give an indication of his spending philosophy, he isn't afraid to spend, however he expects returns on his money, and it isn't his own pocket he delves into in the main, it's club generated finances. If you're expecting a Sheikh style spend, where Henry raids his own bank account, or takes out loans to fund spending, then I believe you'll be disappointed.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You need to realise that City and pretty much every other football club (aside from Real Madrid and Chelsea, historically at least) are very different. We are extremely lucky in as much as our owner is willing to spend money from his own private wealth in order to bring the very best to City, the World Class players you mention. Liverpool aren't in that situation and, as such, will struggle to meet the financial commitments to bring in World Class players. You're talking £25m+ price tags, and £100k+ per week wages, per player. It's astronomical really, and it's unaffordably to most.

You also need to realise that simply wanting World Class players, even if you can afford them, doesn't mean they will want to come. Liverpool have a fantastic history, but you've not the title in over 2 decades. As we discovered, you can't bring in the World Class names straight away, they need to be convinced that you are going in the right direction, and that you can reach the upper echelons of World football. Liverpool are there in name only at this stage, you need 2 or 3 seasons of improvement like we achieved before the World's best will join.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match.

I'm not sure people are specifically saying Downing has been shit THIS season. My opinion of him is he hasn't actually ever been all that great. Above average but WAY behind the level needed to contribute for a title challenging side.

Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there).

Henderson was overspending (almost) at its worst (Carroll WAS overspending at its worse). Unproven, young and English seems to inevitably mean a huge price tag, which normally scares people off until the player has reached their level and an accurate assessment can be made. £20m for Henderson was almost criminal.

Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

Well, at least we can agree on something!!

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

Sometimes statistics can be very misleading. Look at who holds the best defensive record, Newcastle. Now, tell me a defence of Coluccini, Simpson, R Taylor and S Taylor is anywhere near the best in the Premiership. Clearly it isn't. Liverpool's defence, apart from Enrique, is identical to last season, with the addition of a couple of unproven youngsters in Flanagan and Kelly. How many of you're "best" back 4 of Enrique, Agger, Skrtel and Johnson would get a game for United, Chelsea or City? Any of them? I certainly wouldn't trade any of our back 4 for them, including the back up options at right and left back.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

Reina, Gerrard and Suarez aside none of those players is really top quality. Above average for sure, but you need extremely good players throughout just to break the top 4, let alone stay there.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants, we bought English players in the summer because we HAD to, you have to have a certain amount of English players in your squad, ours was full of foreign shit from when Rafa was in charge.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match. Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there). Adam does what he's there for, but can be so fucking frustrating at times. Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

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[bluemoondays]

I think most people would agree L'pool are looking dodgy for Top 4 but that could be said for a lot of clubs. We're not immune to it, we're 12 points over 6th/7th place. It would take a pretty disastrous collapse but it is still possible (if not probable). Liverpool losing £30m every season would hurt their finances badly and not being able to guarantee that financing year-on-year makes it a really risky investment to try and get back that guaranteed Top 4 place.

One thing that puzzles me about the Liverpool take-over is that this really, really nice american businessman rescued them from the really, really nasty american duo of businessmen. American businessmen never struck me as liking to give money away so surely they are going to AT LEAST want the interest they would have earned on £450m (preferably with jam on top). I think it's just another leveraged buyout, maybe with delayed payments, but if they aren't going to see a return on nearly £0.5Bn then why the hell are they doing it, just to be able to say they own a football club? Eventually they are either going to want:

a) their £450m returned + refund of any other money invested + any interest due + some payment for the time and effort they spent or
b) build it up and sell it to get the above
c) make LFC self sufficient so they can get their cash back via that route or
d) happily spunk out £0.5Bn (+ extras) for the prestige of owning LFC

I'll give you a clue, the answer isn't (d) above and I think c) is very long term as it would probably need a new gound at least adding another £250m to the pot to be refunded :D

Liverpool, supposedly, now have no debt so where did the £450m come from plus the funds for new players (excluding the Torres sale) - in our case it's obvious, a trophy club to provide advertising for Abu Dhabi but I can't see any benefit for the new american owner?

 

[fbloke]

Why are LFC and AFC fans so blinkered by their histories that they ignore the issue about players wanting CL footy in orde to sign?

It was well understood that City and Spurs needed CL football to be considered as a club capable of going up a notch in players.

But apparently the lack of that same CL football is not an impediment to LFC?

There's a smattering of arrogance about that assumption with a good dollop of denial on the side.