The NHS

[SilverFox2]

I hate "whataboutery" but how many have the "failings" in the NHS killed? Compare it to how many were killed because of the decision to go into Iraq by Labour and Blair? Any death at the hands of politicians is wrong but the politicians we have today are more interested in one upmanship than really making a difference...

If Labour had offered a real coherent alternative, pushed through on Brexit then committed to deal with the wider issues we face in society then they may have a chance today.. As I see it they have sat on the fence and offered nothing re Brexit (apart from the threat of revoke) and therefore their wider aspirations are irrelevant if people can't accept manifesto pledge 1..

The "honest broker" comment is absolute bollocks.. what it means is that he wants to remain but doesn't have the bollocks to say so

There are various ways to save money and when the saving of lives is your main business it helps financially if people actually die rather than continue or even start with expensive treatment.

When I lived in the UK there was a big drive to treat prostate cancer early.
In Spain a max of 3 for psa blood test prevails but unfortunately different Trusts in UK had different psa value limits so say Manchester would look at 5 as too high whereas say Leeds had 7 as maximum. I think they have adjusted downwards now but a suspicion is that perhaps the cost of diagnosis and treatment was originally deliberately set higher as a cost saving. The alternative being that medical diagnosis and treatment values are not shared between Trusts.

Postcode lottery happens for drugs so maybe it had found its way into diagnosis limits for certain killer diseases?

 

[Bluemanc100]

There are various ways to save money and when the saving of lives is your main business it helps financially if people actually die rather than continue or even start with expensive treatment.

When I lived in the UK there was a big drive to treat prostate cancer early.
In Spain a max of 3 for psa blood test prevails but unfortunately different Trusts in UK had different psa value limits so say Manchester would look at 5 as too high whereas say Leeds had 7 as maximum. I think they have adjusted downwards now but a suspicion is that perhaps the cost of diagnosis and treatment was originally deliberately set higher as a cost saving. The alternative being that medical diagnosis and treatment values are not shared between Trusts.

Postcode lottery happens for drugs so maybe it had found its way into diagnosis limits for certain killer diseases?

SWMBO has Lymphoma and the treatment she has received in the last 4 years has been superb.. I know that the NHS makes some life and death decisions on a daily basis but it always will.. regardless of funding

I agree that the service should be able to fund all requests for treatment but it surely can't. There is no coherent plan at present to fund it and reduce the waste. It's colossal and it will always be a challenge the NHS effectively while keeping everybody happy.. it's impossible I'd wager

 

[Cheesy]

My Mother worked in the NHS for 40 plus years and she says the single biggest issue is the abuse of the system. Too many people taking zero responsibility for their own health and too many people turning up at their doctors or A&E when a quick visit to the pharmacy would do. They had patients who would turn up for appointments every single week without fail. They doctors had to see them. They couldn't turn them away and there was no point in removing them from their patient list as they'd only go elsewhere & cause the same issue at a different practice.

There's also people out there who genuinely have no idea how the NHS is funded. I've recently had a heated argument with my Niece (who doesn't pay a penny in tax or NI and is one of those guilty of running to the doctors at the slightest sign of any 'ilness') who had no idea that the NHS was just free at the point of delivery and not actually free!

Until people start taking some responsibility for their own health & stop abusing the system, no amount of money thrown at the NHS is going to solve it's issues.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I do wish the Tories had promised to buy (nationalise) PFI lending organisations like Sajid Javid suggested a few years back when Treasury Secretary. Paying £10.3bn a year, totalling £198bn by 2040 is a complete rip off! On average between 40% and 90% more than if financed by Government borrowing.
Its like using a the cheapest credit card you can find to buy a car. Not in any way value for money.
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/pfi-and-pf2/
Simply guarantee the lenders twice what they put in over a fairly short time period and close each fund down. The liberated cash flow would do wonders for infrastructure investment.

 

[blueinsa]

My Mother worked in the NHS for 40 plus years and she says the single biggest issue is the abuse of the system. Too many people taking zero responsibility for their own health and too many people turning up at their doctors or A&E when a quick visit to the pharmacy would do. They had patients who would turn up for appointments every single week without fail. They doctors had to see them. They couldn't turn them away and there was no point in removing them from their patient list as they'd only go elsewhere & cause the same issue at a different practice.

There's also people out there who genuinely have no idea how the NHS is funded. I've recently had a heated argument with my Niece (who doesn't pay a penny in tax or NI and is one of those guilty of running to the doctors at the slightest sign of any 'ilness') who had no idea that the NHS was just free at the point of delivery and not actually free!

Until people start taking some responsibility for their own health & stop abusing the system, no amount of money thrown at the NHS is going to solve it's issues.

Could not agree more mate.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Which should be the subject of an investigation and heads should roll.

Management should also be looked at as well along with the salaries that go with it.

Yes its a huge organisation but the sheer numbers of managers all earning frankly ridiculous salaries that would be incredible in the private sector never mind the public one is ridiculous.

By all means pay top money to capable individuals but then they dont need another 10 under them also earning 6 figures and so on and so on........

The NHS in England is a £100 billion-a-year-plus business. It sees 1 million patients every 36 hours, spending nearly £2 billion a week. Aside from the banks, the only companies with a larger turnover in the FTSE 100 are the two global oil giants Shell and BP. If the NHS were a country it would be around the thirtieth largest in the world.

About 8% of the NHS budget is spent on Management and Administration. Managers themselves account for less than 4% of the workforce, compared to the UK average figure of over 15%. If anything, that possibly suggests that the NHS, particularly given the complexity of health care, is under- rather than over-managed.

 

[blueinsa]

The NHS in England is a £100 billion-a-year-plus business. It sees 1 million patients every 36 hours, spending nearly £2 billion a week. Aside from the banks, the only companies with a larger turnover in the FTSE 100 are the two global oil giants Shell and BP. If the NHS were a country it would be around the thirtieth largest in the world.

About 8% of the NHS budget is spent on Management and Administration. Managers themselves account for less than 4% of the workforce, compared to the UK average figure of over 15%. If anything, that possibly suggests that the NHS, particularly given the complexity of health care, is under- rather than over-managed.

Yeah i read that this morning from the site you copied and pasted it from.

I disagree with it.

 

[SilverFox2]

SWMBO has Lymphoma and the treatment she has received in the last 4 years has been superb.. I know that the NHS makes some life and death decisions on a daily basis but it always will.. regardless of funding

I agree that the service should be able to fund all requests for treatment but it surely can't. There is no coherent plan at present to fund it and reduce the waste. It's colossal and it will always be a challenge the NHS effectively while keeping everybody happy.. it's impossible I'd wager

No question that when treatment is given it is superb and I agree all should be given that same treatment but choices have to be made on a daily basis who gets the treatment or not.

 

[Bluemanc100]

No question that when treatment is given it is superb and I agree all should be given that same treatment but choices have to be made on a daily basis who gets the treatment or not.

And that will not change with extra funding

 

[BlueAnorak]

The NHS in England is a £100 billion-a-year-plus business. It sees 1 million patients every 36 hours, spending nearly £2 billion a week. Aside from the banks, the only companies with a larger turnover in the FTSE 100 are the two global oil giants Shell and BP. If the NHS were a country it would be around the thirtieth largest in the world.

About 8% of the NHS budget is spent on Management and Administration. Managers themselves account for less than 4% of the workforce, compared to the UK average figure of over 15%. If anything, that possibly suggests that the NHS, particularly given the complexity of health care, is under- rather than over-managed.

Utter tosh, the figures of 4% admin employees and 8% admin budget are bang on for any business of any size.