Optimus Prime said:BillyShears said:I posted this in another thread, but think it deserves a thread of it's own.
It's apparent that there's again moral outrage on Bluemoon at Mark Hughes' inability to improve the players he has, to beat the likes of Burnley, Fulham, Birmingham, et al To do anything other than blame Elano and Sven for all his own shortcomings. To dismantle a perfectly good youth system. To sack all the decent staff at the club and replace them with under-qualified mates of his. To play nothing but negative, long ball football. To be a glorified Sam Allardyce. The list of Hughes' crimes are as endless as the Hughes Out threads...
It begs the question...what the fuck are these supposedly perfect owners of ours doing sitting on their hands. Ultimately, the buck stops with them. They are the ones who have been publicly backing Hughes since they took over. They are the ones who have let him fritter away over 200 million pounds on workhorses like Bellamy, Santa Cruz, and Tevez.
Surely it makes sense to just get shot of Hughes now and bring in someone better - which lets face it, if we believe even 50% of the stuff written on here about Hughes - won't be difficult. The reality is that come the end of this season, if we don't finish 4th, there's no way we will be capable of attracting the kind of players we would want. Furthermore, even attracting a manager of the ilk of Mouinho or Hiddink is out of the question irrespective of what other people think, if we aren't playing champions league football next season.
So you see, it's a huge season this one. Isn't it time our owners stepped up to the plate. Showed that they know what they're actually doing in running a football club. Demonstrate the kind of nous which undoubtedly is going to be required in the coming years to ensure long term success at the club. Shouldn't they now, or in the very very near future, take responsibility for the "Mark Hughes Project" - rather than hiding behind the blank cheque book which they've given him. Accept that he is not what the fans want, and he is not good enough. I'll repeat myself. Take some fucking responsibility, show some leadership and character, and stop hiding behind empty rhetoric about stability, and long term planning...
Billy. I can't work out whether you're being serious or not, but if you're genuinely claiming that you think our owners should take heed of the load of reactionary, unrealistic, dogmatic, demanding, intolerant, bombastic and downright needy drivel that passes for opinion on here half the time, then I think you need you need to rethink.
Just because some irate City fan comes on here after yet another tedious bore draw and claims Hughes is Sam Allardyce in disguise certainly does not mean our ownwers should pay any attention whatsoever to them, nevermind use this in some way to inform their decision making. I would like to think they see the running of the club from behind the scenes, and know a hell of a lot more than some jumped up fan on an internet forum about how well or otherwise the Club is being run. This should be the information they use when making decisions about the Club.
This forum serves a purpose for a lot of fans - allowing them to vent spleen behind a shield of anonymity when they're pissed off with the team. Lets not try and make it out to be something that it isn't, ie: a sensible, reasoned barometer of opinion.
If our owners made decisions based on the 'insights' they read on here, I would genuinely be concerned. And then I would be questioning their suitability to run a football club. As it stands, I'm quite sure that's not what they do.
BillyShears said:Optimus Prime said:Billy. I can't work out whether you're being serious or not, but if you're genuinely claiming that you think our owners should take heed of the load of reactionary, unrealistic, dogmatic, demanding, intolerant, bombastic and downright needy drivel that passes for opinion on here half the time, then I think you need you need to rethink.
Just because some irate City fan comes on here after yet another tedious bore draw and claims Hughes is Sam Allardyce in disguise certainly does not mean our ownwers should pay any attention whatsoever to them, nevermind use this in some way to inform their decision making. I would like to think they see the running of the club from behind the scenes, and know a hell of a lot more than some jumped up fan on an internet forum about how well or otherwise the Club is being run. This should be the information they use when making decisions about the Club.
This forum serves a purpose for a lot of fans - allowing them to vent spleen behind a shield of anonymity when they're pissed off with the team. Lets not try and make it out to be something that it isn't, ie: a sensible, reasoned barometer of opinion.
If our owners made decisions based on the 'insights' they read on here, I would genuinely be concerned. And then I would be questioning their suitability to run a football club. As it stands, I'm quite sure that's not what they do.
I guess I'm the only one who finds it fascinating that Hughes can be vilified, and those who defend him can be roundly mocked and savaged on this board as being clueless. But our owners are above reproach...
Oh, and the usual suspects are notable by their absence in this thread...
padgey said:I’ve been reading the opinions of everybody on this forum which have kept me entertained for some time. Most of the responses I’ve found humorous, well balanced and articulate and nothing splits us blues more than the Hughes in/out debate. I feel compelled to post for the first time as this thread is aimed more at the owners rather than Hughes. I work in the finance industry and through clients have some knowledge of the take over.
I can assure you that Manchester City Football club we’re facing a very uncertain future prior to the takeover, I’m not being dramatic when I tell you our club was saved from potential oblivion as the banks we’re about to call for a return on their investments. I can understand fans frustrations as we’ve all waited so long for the club to return to the top echelons of English football and a return to the successes City enjoyed in the late 60’s/70’s which like me being 37 most of us missed.
If I Hypothesis that we sack Mark Hughes and bring in another manager then he dismantles the team sells the players he doesn’t want, he plays his desired formation, maybe he doesn’t want to play with defensive midfielders so De Jong, Kompany and Barry are sold along with other players who are sacrificed for tactical reasons. I know I’m speculating but I’m trying to bring some rationale to the Hughes out argument.
That process takes what 3 transfer windows probably more as bearing in mind the owners have said we won’t spend to the levels we have already again. So in theory it will take us another 2/3 seasons to get us ready to challenge the “Big Four†under our new saviour whoever that might be. Fans from other clubs like Spurs, Villa and especially Everton would be astonished if they read some of the stuff on here with some of our fans behaving like spoiled children who have received a raft of Xmas presents they didn’t want and are now throwing a tantrum “I don’t want Hughes†“I don’t want Lescott†“I don’t want Bellamy†we are in a very privileged position and I like a lot of City fans are grateful for the opportunity we now have.
We are 6th with a game in hand, way I see it there are fans of this club holding City back a lot more than Mark Hughes has ever done during his tenure. The owners have categorically stated Hughes is the man for the job; surely as a fan of the club irrespective of your personal beliefs on the subject your resource would be much more productive in supporting the club you love the decisions of both the owners and manager.
tolmie's hairdoo said:I do actually understand where Billy is come from and why he raised the issue.
I firmly believe that our fans believe our owners can do no wrong. But the simple fact is they are still very new to this football lark, so completely different and unpredictable in nature than any other business which they may diversify in.
My own opinion is they are currently caught between 'a rock and a hard place', with regards wanting to be seen as careful and considered custodians, and actually fast-tracking their obvious aims.
They are to be commended in trying not to be perceived as just another get-rich-quick ego-driven foreign owner. Their fabulous wealth, actually hamstrings them.
£200m is certainly a huge amount, but not to these guys, and if the Kaka figures are anything to go by, a small drop in the ocean and a greater indicator to where they want to go and be.
So in answer to Billy, Khaldoon and Sheikh Mansour must surely acknowledge a dilemma exists. They continually have to use Garry Cook as a sounding board in terms of City's progress.
This, itself, is a problem in that Garry Cook is also 'learning on the job' having never worked in football club before, and made the appointment of Hughes.
Their future is directly linked, a vote of no confidence from Cook in Hughes, is him conceding he made the wrong appointment.
So, apart from outright outcomes on the football pitch, Khaldoon, Cook and Sheikh Mansour, are basically like us, football supporters who don't, at this present time, know what it takes to make a successful football club.
Hughes has a management structure in place which also champions his cause. My opinions of Hughes have never wavered. Just as I thought Sven was an absolute fraud when fellow blues felt appalled at his impending departure.
He can only take my club so far. The investment made this summer would allow for improvement at any other Premier League club, although I concede, we were in a sorrier state than most.
Hughes has been given enough rope to hang himself with in terms of the objective this season.
I liken our current situation to the same as Chelsea. Abramovich ultimately concluded (correctly) that the very likeable and popular Claudio Ranieri would not take the club where he wanted it to go.
Ranieri, like Hughes, was allowed to spend a lot of cash in the initial takeover, but it was simply the calm before the storm and a certain Special One.
He crashed-out at the Champions League stage, against an average Monaco side that year, having beaten Arsenal at Highbury in the quarters.
My opinion is that the same rule of thumb exits for Hughes. Champions League or bust. Of course I hope we get there, although I believe it would be in spite of him, rather than because of him.
ADUG have already built up enough good faith to believe they will ultimately make the right decisions when they have a greater understanding of what is going on.
I was ridiculed early last year when I posted that there were individuals actively seeking to determine Jose Mourinho's situation.
Aside from my own admiration for him, ultimately, he is in a very small minority who can deliver on our real aims, and why I still see him as a City manager one day.
Prestwich_Blue said:Our owners are referred to as astute businessmen and we all take this glib statement for granted but they are clearly as useless as Hughes. Mediocrity likes mediocrity. Appointing someone who is better than you is an owner or supervisor's worst nightmare.
Sheikh Mansour already owned a football club before taking us over but (and let's be brutally honest here) Al-Jazeera is hardly among the leading lights of world football. A bit like Altrincham when compared to our mighty club. So there's even a parallel with our history here - Sheikh Mansour is the new Peter Swales. After all, everyone though he was an astute businessman and he made a few bob by being in the right place at the right time.
I think they've made a number of dubious decisions. Like Bernstein with Keegan's early dealings, they've not scrutinised or challenged most of Hughes' buys. Bridge, Lescott, Tevez have all been a complete waste of money. Just like Vuoso, Macken, Negouai and Fowler. The one buy they did challenge (Bellamy) has actually turned out to be a master-stroke. They've also let him get rid of reliable stars like Elano, Dunne, Vassell, Ball & Caicedo (albeit on loan) yet keep clearly useless players like Garruido, Benjani and Richards.
Worst of all, they appoint a chairman who's just a businessman and knows bugger all about football. And don't get me started on Garry Cook. Ivan Gazidis, the first choice for the job, clearly saw through Thaksin yet Cook fell for the con-man's patter hook line and sinker.
So why would anyone expect these useless idiots to act in the first place. After all, if they didn't have the foresight to appoint people like BillyShears as Chairman and MikeD as Director of Football, with their obvious qualities and qualifications then what hope is there?
Should have left the last bit out and I'd have caught a bucket-full.Didsbury Dave said:Prestwich_Blue said:Our owners are referred to as astute businessmen and we all take this glib statement for granted but they are clearly as useless as Hughes. Mediocrity likes mediocrity. Appointing someone who is better than you is an owner or supervisor's worst nightmare.
Sheikh Mansour already owned a football club before taking us over but (and let's be brutally honest here) Al-Jazeera is hardly among the leading lights of world football. A bit like Altrincham when compared to our mighty club. So there's even a parallel with our history here - Sheikh Mansour is the new Peter Swales. After all, everyone though he was an astute businessman and he made a few bob by being in the right place at the right time.
I think they've made a number of dubious decisions. Like Bernstein with Keegan's early dealings, they've not scrutinised or challenged most of Hughes' buys. Bridge, Lescott, Tevez have all been a complete waste of money. Just like Vuoso, Macken, Negouai and Fowler. The one buy they did challenge (Bellamy) has actually turned out to be a master-stroke. They've also let him get rid of reliable stars like Elano, Dunne, Vassell, Ball & Caicedo (albeit on loan) yet keep clearly useless players like Garruido, Benjani and Richards.
Worst of all, they appoint a chairman who's just a businessman and knows bugger all about football. And don't get me started on Garry Cook. Ivan Gazidis, the first choice for the job, clearly saw through Thaksin yet Cook fell for the con-man's patter hook line and sinker.
So why would anyone expect these useless idiots to act in the first place. After all, if they didn't have the foresight to appoint people like BillyShears as Chairman and MikeD as Director of Football, with their obvious qualities and qualifications then what hope is there?
I think you'll catch yourself a Clarkie or two with that one, PB.