The PGMOL Apologies Thread

[SebastianBlue]

Which sports are you thinking about when you say that?

In the sports I can think of, the most weight virtually always goes with the on field official and evidence is needed that he was wrong to overturn. Similar to football.

In cricket, for LBW decisions where the ball tracker has half the ball hitting the stumps, they stick with Not Out, if that was the umpires original decision.

In rugby league, the referee must always make a decision and the video referee needs conclusive proof he was wrong, to overturn it.

The NFL is similar to rugby league. For the vast majority of incidents, the on field referee has to make a decision and it’s up to the video people to find proof he is wrong, or his call stands.

Tennis is different because it’s more or less just goal line technology for every dispute.

The only one I can think of where the video ref has the most say is for run outs in cricket, where the on field umpire isn’t required to make a decision at all and can refer it to the video adjudicator for the first and final opinion.

Don’t really know anything about rugby union.

Are there other sports I’ve forgotten about that use it?

You’ve actually listed many of the sports I would have used for example, only you’ve either misinterpreted my post or their rules: rugby, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, Tennis, and others have a threshold of “was an error made”, not “was the error clear and obvious”.

Of course the official on the field makes the initial decision, but only in a few leagues (in this case PL) does the video replay team have discretion to decide not to review or overturn based on a determination of *how* clear and obvious the incorrect decision by the on-field officials was.

The PL has intentionally allowed a secondary value judgement (I.e. additional layer of subjectivity) that lowers the utility of video replay.

In fact, with American sport leagues, the video replay team can override on-field officials for certain subjective decisions without having them review the video.

And “conclusive proof” is a completely different (and lower) threshold to “clear and obvious”. The former merely needs to have evidence an error was made; the latter requires a qualitative assessment as to whether the error made is worthy of being corrected.

Hence why it is different to most other major sports, including the originators of video replay (American sport leagues), which have had it for literally decades longer than the PL, as football in general resisted implementing it.

So we are either arguing different points or you misunderstand the difference between “conclusive proof” (was an error made) and “clear and obvious” (is the error of a sufficient level to be corrected) thresholds for intervention.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Which sports are you thinking about when you say that?

In the sports I can think of, the most weight virtually always goes with the on field official and evidence is needed that he was wrong to overturn. Similar to football.

In cricket, for LBW decisions where the ball tracker has half the ball hitting the stumps, they stick with Not Out, if that was the umpires original decision.

In rugby league, the referee must always make a decision and the video referee needs conclusive proof he was wrong, to overturn it.

The NFL is similar to rugby league. For the vast majority of incidents, the on field referee has to make a decision and it’s up to the video people to find proof he is wrong, or his call stands.

Tennis is different because it’s more or less just goal line technology for every dispute.

The only one I can think of where the video ref has the most say is for run outs in cricket, where the on field umpire isn’t required to make a decision at all and can refer it to the video adjudicator for the first and final opinion.

Don’t really know anything about rugby union.

Are there other sports I’ve forgotten about that use it?

By the way, I’ve just noticed you’ve not yet shared your thoughts about the controversy—is there a reason, given you are usually quick to jump in to the fray?

 

[Gone for a Burton]

They need microphones so we can here how they arrive at these ridiculous descisions.They also need to watch in real time not slow motion.

ALL officials to be miked up to each other and the broadcast.

ALL conversations to be recorded.

Ref can volunteer to review any incident without reference to VAR.

VAR 'office' to be in permanent view on a stadium screen.

Refs to be contracted to media interviews IMMEDIATELY he leaves the field of play following the final whistle.

Referee and VAR report to be published within two hours of the final whistle from a sealed office and NO external communication !!

 

[remember arthur mann]

Hollow apologies.

Now where have I heard them before? Oh yes ! The tory party.

 

[Stephen230]

By the way, I’ve just noticed you’ve not yet shared your thoughts about the controversy—is there a reason, given you are usually quick to jump in to the fray?

I posted on the VAR thread not long after the game last night that I thought it should have been a penalty.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I posted on the VAR thread not long after the game last night that I thought it should have been a penalty.

Ahh, I must have missed it. No other comments about why the VAR would have missed such a “clear and obvious” error by the on-field official?

 

[Idesofmarch69]

Judging by their performance last night, I think it will take divine intervention for United to make the top 4 this season, not var!

 

[TFC]

Until there is accountability (dropping them for the next game is obviously not enough), nothing will change.

Its been mentioned to death, but the only answer is the refs and assistants are mic'd up. Until that happens, same old same old.

 

[Stephen230]

Ahh, I must have missed it. No other comments about why the VAR would have missed such a “clear and obvious” error by the on-field official?

Well there’s only three possible reasons.

They’re right and I’m wrong.
They made a mistake.
They cheated.

I’d like to think the middle one was the case but who knows?

 

[Gray]

Get rid of VAR and go back to an instant decision. Some you get, some you don’t but at least then we are all in the same boat.

There are certain Clubs who would be in the Queen Mary 2, whilst the rest of us would be in the Titanic.