The Rapture (Return of Christ) & Doomsday Predicted

[Damocles]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

Here's that video mate.

Did you get chance to watch this Phil? I should be able to fill in any gaps where the video isn't clear.

 

[philinho]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

Here's that video mate.

Did you get chance to watch this Phil? I should be able to fill in any gaps where the video isn't clear.

Not yet mate, been at bible college last night and this morning, funnily enough talking about the authenticity of the bible. I'll watch it tonight after the notlob game. I'm in hospitality today :-)

 

[lloydie]

<a class="postlink" href="http://vimeo.com/2697520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://vimeo.com/2697520</a>

 

[denislawsbackheel]

There aren't half some nutters out there!
I can't believe rapture believers are allowed to vote.

 

[ElanJo]

Hi Phil, thanks for the discussion

1 - If evolution is true, how is the missing link explained these days and why are the different species so distinct? Why do we not have creatures that are halfway through an evolutionary stage?

Evolution is a product of the animal adapting itself to the most favourable conditions to survive. It isn't a transformation from one thing to another, with stage 1, stage 2, etc, and isn't a force. We see evolution all around us, the simplest one being the zebras and lions.

Think of a pack of zebras and a pack of lions. The lions chase the zebras, then eat them. Due to this, the faster lions will always have the ability to eat, and to breed whereas the slower lions will starve to death thus not passing on their genes. Only the faster lions survive in large numbers and the zebra population is suffering.
The only zebras that survive are those who were quicker than the newly quick lions, or are more agile, and able to evade them.
Thus those zebras are able to breed, producing lots of agile/quick zebras. The lion population starts to die out again as even the newly quick lions can't catch the new zebras. Eventually, the zebra population becomes so big, and more agile lions evolve, meaning a return of lion numbers as they successfully hunt and breed. Perhaps then that one zebra is born with a genetic mutation (not unlike somebody with 12 toes, or Siamese twins or whatever). This zebra may have a better paw pads, meaning more grip, meaning easier turning circle/jumping/speed/whatever.

It works like that, each generation trying to get a little faster or a little more agile to beat the competition to get the chance to breed. This is what was sort of meant by the term "natural selection". The animals adapt to their local environment to survive.

As I say, there's no 'midpoint' just a slow and gradual change based on local environment and competition then adaptations over millions of years to this.

Zebras are amazing. You wouldn't think that their coat would be much use in their environment but in actual fact when they are in close proximity it becomes very very difficult to differentiate between the individual zebras. This makes it very hard for the lion, who is colour blind, to target, stalk and strike a particular zebra(usually the weaker amongst the herd). The stripes make it difficult for the lion to even know which way the Zebra is facing and if the lion jumps into the middle of a herd the resulting panic, with them running in all directions, is very disorientating for the lion.

-- Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:01 pm --

Ok, if we're arguing semantically, can God create a stone that he cannot lift?

In a way I suppose the answer is yes, He could create a stone, then he could say that he couldn't lift it, and then he wouldn't be able to lift.

God can't lie, because when he speaks that immediately becomes truth, so if he were to say 'I cannot life this stone' then He wouldn't be able too...

Obviously, I have no basis for that and the more appropriate response might be somewhere along the lines of 'Why on earth would He do that?' but I'm trying to take this discussion seriously :-)

Does this extend to the realm of morality?

As for the stone dilemma, I think a better apologetic response for the theist is to say "God can do anything that is logically possible" therefore God could not make a stone that he could not lift. It's not often that I take the side of the theist but I think that it is a pretty valid response to the dilemma. Sayng that 'whatever God says becomes truth' opens an even bigger can of worms for the theist.

-- Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:14 pm --

Anybody who is an atheist is just as unscientific as theists; the only correct answer so far is "I don't know".

That's funny because in actual fact you are an atheist. ;)

Atheism and Theism deal with belief.

Agnosticism and Gnosticism deal with knowledge.

You're an agnostic-atheist, just like me. You don't believe in the existence of a god but you don't make the claim to knowledge that a God absolutely does not exist.

You're strawmanning atheism by treating it as Gnostic Atheism or "Strong/positive atheism". Very few atheists truly make the claim that no deities exist.

-- Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:44 pm --

The main difference as I see it is that Jesus fulfilled a lot of Old Testament prophecy (over 140 individual prophecies) in his birth, life, death and subsequent resurrection, starting in the book of Genesis, and continuing over the course of 2000 years throughout the whole Old Testament. During his time on earth he performed many miracles including healing the sick, feeding multitudes, water into wine etc.

His impact on the world has been massive, even if you don't believe the Bible it's hard to dispute the existence of a man called Jesus, since his life is well documented in historical texts that weren't written by Christians and are generally not disputed in their accuracy.

That's false. Jesus' life was not well documented by non biblical sources. Mentions of Jesus, like from Josephus, were literally that - just mentions. A few lines. And even then the authenticity is dubious at best. Jesus' life isn't even well documented in the Bible. His life from 12 to 30 years old is completely missing for example.

Jesus almost certainly existed, don't get me wrong, but looking at early Christianity and the chronology of the texts it becomes painfully obvious that all this stuff about miracles and virgin births were all part of his growing legend (it's not even uncommon folklore). The early writings make next to no mention of the fantastical elements of Jesus. As time went on these parts were slipped in.

 

[Damocles]

Anybody who is an atheist is just as unscientific as theists; the only correct answer so far is "I don't know".

That's funny because in actual fact you are an atheist. ;)

Atheism and Theism deal with belief.

Agnosticism and Gnosticism deal with knowledge.

You're an agnostic-atheist, just like me. You don't believe in the existence of a god but you don't make the claim to knowledge that a God absolutely does not exist.

You're strawmanning atheism by treating it as Gnostic Atheism or "Strong/positive atheism". Very few atheists truly make the claim that no deities exist.

Actually, I want to apologise for this, because you are totally correct. I don't even have an excuse, I'm not sure what I was thinking at time as I understand the different 'flavours' of atheism but somehow just rounded up in my equations and ended up with that tripe.

As I say, apologies, you were correct, and I was a dumbass :)

Did you watch the video by the way ElanJo? You may have seen it before, but it's a bit awesome:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

 

[ElanJo]

That's funny because in actual fact you are an atheist. ;)

Atheism and Theism deal with belief.

Agnosticism and Gnosticism deal with knowledge.

You're an agnostic-atheist, just like me. You don't believe in the existence of a god but you don't make the claim to knowledge that a God absolutely does not exist.

You're strawmanning atheism by treating it as Gnostic Atheism or "Strong/positive atheism". Very few atheists truly make the claim that no deities exist.

Actually, I want to apologise for this, because you are totally correct. I don't even have an excuse, I'm not sure what I was thinking at time as I understand the different 'flavours' of atheism but somehow just rounded up in my equations and ended up with that tripe.

As I say, apologies, you were correct, and I was a dumbass :)

Did you watch the video by the way ElanJo? You may have seen it before, but it's a bit awesome:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

No worries. I agree that those who claim that there is definitely no deity are being unscientific (tho, with that said, I think it can be demonstrated, using logic, that certain definitions of God do not exist)

Haven't seen it but will watch it now. Cheers.

Edit: Great vid. I love all videos that show evolution via CGI. The bit where Australopithecus stands up is epic.
I wonder what life on this planet would have been like now if the Dinosaur extinction had never occurred.



On a different note (related to what I said earlier about looking at the chronology of the Christian scriptures and how it shows Jesus to be legendary figure) here's a decent video for those interested.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKAHoYCWXF8[/youtube]

 

[depps]

This is a bit off topic but i recently discovered this poem and think some of the people on this thread might enjoy it. Personally I consider myself to be an atheist, but I have a penchant for mysticism of all kinds and am probably more of a pantheist really (I don't belive in a god, but think of the universe and existence itself as 'God' to a certain extent). The poem is from some very early gnostic texts that were found in Egypt in 1945, enjoy:

Thunder, Perfect Mind:

I was sent forth from the power,
and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you (pl.) who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
Do not be ignorant of me.

For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband,
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who [begot me] before the time
on a birthday.
And he is my offspring [in] (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
[and] he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.

Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
and you hate those who love me?
You who deny me, confess me,
and you who confess me, deny me.
You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
You who know me, be ignorant of me,
and those who have not known me, let them know me.

For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.
I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.

Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
[and] you will find me in [those that] are to come.
And do not look [upon] me on the dung-heap
nor go and leave me cast out,
and you will find me in the kingdoms.
And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
are disgraced and in the least places,
nor laugh at me.
And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.
But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
Be on your guard!
Do not hate my obedience
and do not love my self-control.
In my weakness, do not forsake me,
amd do not be afraid of my power.
For why do you despise my fear
and curse my pride?

But I am she who exists in all fears
and strength in trembling.
I am she who is weak,
and I am well in a pleasant place.
I am senseless and I am wise.

Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak.
Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
Because I am a barbarian among [the] barbarians?
For I am the wisdom [of the] Greeks
and the knowledge of [the] barbarians.
I am the judgment of [the] Greeks and the barbarians.
am the one whose image is great in Egypt
and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
I am the one who is hated everywhere
and who has been loved everywhere.
I am the one whom they call Life,
and you have called Death.
I am the one whom they call Law,
and you have called Lawlessness.
I am the one whom you have pursued,
and I am the one whom you have seized.
I am the one you have scattered,
and you have gathered me together.
I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
and you have been shameless to me.
I am she who does not keep festival,
and I am she whose festivals are many.
I, I am godless,
and I am one whose God is great.
I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
and you have scorned me.
I am unlearned,
and they learn from me.
I am the one whom you have despised,
and you reflect upon me.
I am the one whom you have hidden from,
and you appear to me.
But whenever you hide yourselves,
I myself will appear.
For [whenever] you [appear],
I myself [will hide] from you.
Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].

Take me [... understanding] from grief,
and take me to yourselves from understanding [and] grief.
And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
and out of shamelessness and shame, upbraid my members
in yourselves.
And come foreward to me, you who know me
and you who know my members,
and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
Come foreward to childhood,
and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
And do not turn away greatness in some parts from the
smallnesses,
for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.

Why do you curse me and honor me?
You have wounded and you have had mercy.
Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have [known].
[And] do not cast anyone [out nor] turn anyone away
[...] turn away and [... know] him not.
[... him].
What is mine [...].
I know the [first ones] and those after them [know] me.

But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
and the finding of those who seek after me,
and the command of those who ask of me,
and the power of the powers in my knowledge
of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
and of the gods in their seasons by my counsel,
and of the spirits of every man who exists with me,
and of the women who dwell within me.
I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
and who is despised scornfully.
I am peace,
and war has come because of me.
I am an alien and a citizen.
I am the substance and the one who has no substance.

Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
and those who are far away from me are the ones who have
known me.
On the day when I am close to [you],
[you] are far away [from me],
[and] on the day when I [am far away] from you,
[I am close] to you.

[I am ...] within.
[I am ...] of the natures.
I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
[...] request of souls.
[I am] control and the uncontrollable.
I am the union and the dissolution.
I am the abiding and the dissolving.
I am the one below,
and they come up to me.
I am the judgment and the acquittal.
I, I am sinless,
and the root of sin derives from me.
I am lust in (outward) appearance,
and interior self-control exists within me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everyone
and the speech that cannot be grasped.
I am a mute who does not speak,
and great is the multitude of my words.

Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
I am she who cries out,
and I am cast out on the face of the earth.
I prepare the bread and my mind within.
I am the knowledge of my name.
I am one who cries out,
and I listen.
I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
I am [...] the defense [...].
I am the one who is called Truth,
and iniquity [...].

You honor me [...] and you whisper against [me].
[...] victorious over them.
Judge then before they give judgment against you,
because the judge and the partiality exist in you.
If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
Or if you are acquitted by him who will be able to detain you?
For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped the inside of you.
And what you see outside of you,
you see outside of you;
it is visible and it is your garment.

Hear me, you hearers,
and learn of my words, you who know me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
I am the speech that can not be grasped.
I am the name of the sound
and the sound of the name.
I am the sign of the letter
and the designation of the division.
And I [...].
[...] light [...].
[...] hearers [...] to you
[...] the great power.
And [...] will not move the name.
[...] to the one who created me.
And I will speak his name.

Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.

For many are the pleasant forms which exist in
numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting-place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.

 

[BulgarianPride]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

Beautiful!

 

[jamiegrimble]

The Rapture - 21 May 2011
End of the Word - 21 October 2011

Destination.Mount of Olives.Not convinced of the date though.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Is it me, or is there this distinct 'SALE ENDS MONDAY!' flavour to modern Christianity?

 

[mammutly]

The Rapture - 21 May 2011
End of the Word - 21 October 2011

Destination.Mount of Olives.Not convinced of the date though.

I'm going to love being on here between 21 May and 21 October next year.

I can imagine Elanjo saying something like:

"just because something has appeared to billions of people claiming to be God, set the sky aflame, raised the dead, split continents in two, and seems to be enacting an epic battle with something that looks like a devil doesn't mean it is actually God. It could just as easily be a product of the large hadron collider or a bit of dark matter or something". The only logical position is to study this phenomena and carry out a series of controlled experiments on it, preferably double blind trials. Only then will we have any real idea what we are looking at"


;-)

 

[tonea2003]

Destination.Mount of Olives.Not convinced of the date though.

I'm going to love being on here between 21 May and 21 October next year.

I can imagine Elanjo saying something like:

"just because something has appeared to billions of people claiming to be God, set the sky aflame, raised the dead, split continents in two, and seems to be enacting an epic battle with something that looks like a devil doesn't mean it is actually God. It could just as easily be a product of the large hadron collider or a bit of dark matter or something". The only logical position is to study this phenomena and carry out a series of controlled experiments on it, preferably double blind trials. Only then will we have any real idea what we are looking at"


;-)

wishful thinking
the only rapture i'm expecting is one from the aviva stadium and continuing on
for the rest of the year.

 

[ElanJo]

Destination.Mount of Olives.Not convinced of the date though.

I'm going to love being on here between 21 May and 21 October next year.

I can imagine Elanjo saying something like:

"just because something has appeared to billions of people claiming to be God, set the sky aflame, raised the dead, split continents in two, and seems to be enacting an epic battle with something that looks like a devil doesn't mean it is actually God. It could just as easily be a product of the large hadron collider or a bit of dark matter or something". The only logical position is to study this phenomena and carry out a series of controlled experiments on it, preferably double blind trials. Only then will we have any real idea what we are looking at"


;-)

lol

I'll bet you anything you want that I won't need to make such a statement!

On a similar topic, here's something for you to mull over:

You die and find yourself in some kind of afterlife. You meet a being that claims to be God. What could this being do to demonstrate that it actually is God? It could do amazing things, it could do things that you can't even comprehend, but in the end all it could do is demonstrate that it is an extremely powerful being compared to you. People often remark that 'we won't know for sure until we die' but the truth is that even in death you can't avoid faith.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The Rapture - 21 May 2011
End of the Word - 21 October 2011

This was an advert for a couple of gigs at The Academy.

 

[tonea2003]

The Rapture - 21 May 2011
End of the Word - 21 October 2011

This was an advert for a couple of gigs at The Academy.

emo bands?

 

[simonk]

the bible = jackanory

 

[Damocles]

Speaking of poems/stories, this is an interesting one that depps may enjoy:

The Egg
By: Andy Weir

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.
“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”
You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.
“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”
“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”
“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”
“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.

And a repost of the earlier video, because I can watch it a million times and it never gets old:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.megavideo.com/?v=ECMTESED</a>

 

[mancincali]

I certainly think it could happen by then. THese are the end times, brother, dictated in revelations. Man's turned his back on god

-- Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:55 am --

There aren't half some nutters out there!
I can't believe rapture believers are allowed to vote.

biggot.. ah crap i'm not suppose to judge... erm. person.

how foolish would you feel if there was a rapture and you were sent to hell though? and why do you feel the need to make those who believe in something they take for commonplace seem dumb?<br /><br />-- Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:04 am --<br /><br />

I am sorry but there is no proof that Jesus carried out any miracles what so ever just tales in an ancient story book, I don't dispute there may have been a Jesus but he did not have magic powers, he was not the son of god because there is no god or any proof of god appart from the stories in an ancient book, this is why I compared the things David Ike comes out with to the feeding the five thousand

God did not make man, man made god

and this is exactly why there will be a rapture, weird how everything works out like that!

 

[ElanJo]

“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Jesus said that it would occur in the lifetimes of those who lived at the same time as he did.
Bit overdue...

-- Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:09 pm --

I certainly think it could happen by then. THese are the end times, brother, dictated in revelations. Man's turned his back on god

-- Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:55 am --

There aren't half some nutters out there!
I can't believe rapture believers are allowed to vote.

biggot.. ah crap i'm not suppose to judge... erm. person.

how foolish would you feel if there was a rapture and you were sent to hell though? and why do you feel the need to make those who believe in something they take for commonplace seem dumb?

-- Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:04 am --

I am sorry but there is no proof that Jesus carried out any miracles what so ever just tales in an ancient story book, I don't dispute there may have been a Jesus but he did not have magic powers, he was not the son of god because there is no god or any proof of god appart from the stories in an ancient book, this is why I compared the things David Ike comes out with to the feeding the five thousand

God did not make man, man made god

and this is exactly why there will be a rapture, weird how everything works out like that!

How do you rationalise this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKAHoYCWXF8[/youtube]

"how foolish would you feel if there was a rapture and you were sent to hell though? and why do you feel the need to make those who believe in something they take for commonplace seem dumb?"

why do you feel the need to make those who do not believe in something fear eternal incomprehensible torture?