The Rise of the Far Right

[The perfect fumble]

Saying they have "legitimate concerns" didn't work either, did it?

I fully understand where you're coming from, but I think we need to stop pretending it's OK to march in support of violent racists. All it has achieved is legitimising racism in a way it hasn't been for probably 40 - 50 years.

A clear and consistent line from all leaders in society that racism is not acceptable has made a huge change in the country of that time. We're losing it overnight unless we wake up.

Not all protest marches are the same, some are organised around a single identifiable cause and then various allies of that cause march together, the support for Palestine marches are like that, you get trade unions, religious group, even Gays for Palestine, all allies united around an easily identifiable issue.

The Anti-Nazi League and Rock Against Racism was not the same, the cause was easily identifiable but it was a front for the SWP, everyone knew it but we didn't care, those that did care, and there were groups that did, gave it a swerve, but for those who threw their lot in we were simply using the SWP's organisational skill to get the central message out and the Trotskyist stuff was immaterial. For the SWP they saw the mood swing against the NF in the late 70s and created a vehicle to harness it and in turn piggybacked on that movement.

Unite the Kingdom is a hybrid of the two. Robinson and his crew are doing what the SWP did, they've seen the mood swing in this country and created a vehicle to harness it and in turn piggybacked on that movement. But, and this is the crucial difference, back in the day we all knew what the Anti-Nazi League and Rock Against Racism was and what we wanted to achieve, there was a unanimity of purpose, we wanted the fascists off our streets and in the bin and in that we succeeded, of course while we were doing this Thatcher got in, but that's a debate for another day. But Unite the Kingdom doesn't have that unanimity of purpose, you might think it does because you want to label everyone on the march as the same, but it's as obvious as the nose on your face that while Robinson has managed to harness a mood he hasn't monopolised the message, and that opens up opportunities for killing it.

And the first thing you do to finish Robinson and his crew is to find out if there are reasonable folk on that march that you can deal with reasonably, with the emphasis on reason. Are they marching coz they do have legitimate concerns and the only one who has stepped up to address them is Robinson with his lies? If so then he needs to have the rug pulled from under him by wrestling the narrative away and addressing those folk directly, that way you can reveal some, perhaps most of those concerns as baseless and then address whatever legitimate concerns they have directly. Some folk in here think their concerns are a consequence of manufactured scarcity, groups scrapping over resources that create pointless conflict, some might believe it's existential, a sense of loss of national identity, or the failure of multiculturalism, frankly I don't give a fuck what it is right now, coz right now we're not talking we're shouting.

What I do know right now is labelling that pot pouri of people on that march as Tommy Robinson clones does absolutely nothing other than make the nice folk in here feel better about themselves, and that will not achieve a single fucking thing.

 

[Oldham Exile]

Do you think Tommy Robinson is racist?

Ps

See my Don’t be a Sucker post just above.

I think he is an absolute **** of a human being - absolutely he is a racist and - I am pretty sure that TPF holds the same opinion of him.

Now - please explain why you asked that question - is this just you jumping to further conclusions?

 

[HelloCity]

I think he is an absolute **** of a human being - absolutely he is a racist and - I am pretty sure that TPF holds the same opinion of him.

Now - please explain why you asked that question - is this just you jumping to further conclusions?

Please read my don't be a sucker post. Hopefully they makes my views clearer in a better way :)

I wasn't initially accusing anyone. I was just confused as to why I got some defensive posts when I started slagging off Tommy Robinson. Apologies if crossed wires.

 

[Vic]

Yeah, then generally it leads to one claiming that Brexit voters were all knuckle-dragging racists and then usually another starts deceiving others and themselves regarding how leaving the EU, and therefore the Dublin Agreement not being in place, removed from the the UK the ability to return illegal immigrants back to the EU.

In fact only a very small percentage were returned

Well, you clearly weren't a knuckle-dragging racist. You didn't like the EU's freedom of movement because most Europeans are white so being in the EU was discriminating against non-white would-be immigrants. Are you really wanting to say that the end result of fewer EU immigrants and more Asian immigrants is a success? Perhaps you would like to explain that to people putting up flags.

 

[Oldham Exile]

Please read my don't be a sucker post. Hopefully they makes my views clearer in a better way :)

I wasn't initially accusing anyone. I was just confused as to why I got some defensive posts when I started slagging off Tommy Robinson. Apologies if crossed wires.

I will when I have a spare moment

Also, I would suggest that critical thinking being applied to TPF's posts on this thread would have clearly shown that he is most certainly not a racist - he was an organiser of marches against racism back in the day.

I thought that it was clear that he was simply cautioning against tarring everybody with the same brush

 

[bluethrunthru]

 

[Vic]

Right, though the tax threshold having not been moved will take a chunk out of it.

If the entire £11 a week rise were over the threshold, they'll get £238.80 a week instead of the £230 they are getting now. The number of over-65s paying tax nearly doubled under the Tories (2010-2024) - was that a good thing or a bad thing? Surely it meant most pensioners were better off. 60% already pay tax because of other income.

 

[The perfect fumble]

If the entire £11 a week rise were over the threshold, they'll get £238.80 a week instead of the £230 they are getting now. The number of over-65s paying tax nearly doubled under the Tories (2010-2024) - was that a good thing or a bad thing? Surely it meant most pensioners were better off. 60% already pay tax because of other income.

I've no problem with it, a huge chunk of baby boomer pensioners are asset rich, I'm one of them, I got sent a tax bill and I was happy to pay it.

 

[HelloCity]

I will when I have a spare moment

Also, I would suggest that critical thinking being applied to TPF's posts on this thread would have clearly shown that he is most certainly not a racist - he was an organiser of marches against racism back in the day.

I thought that it was clear that he was simply cautioning against tarring everybody with the same brush

My initial post was a singular post and not aimed at anyone.

Read my post again - I was merely commenting that racists don't usually admit to being racist. It was nothing to do with the other poster or painting people with the same brush.

The defensiveness to such a statement is where I became quite confused as I was merely making a statement of fact - racists don't admit to being racist.

 

[HelloCity]

 

[Vic]

Just out of curiosity, what is wrong with people living in an area they feel comfortable in around people in their community. I assume the live near their local mosque. I also assume White English people would not move there because of the number of muslim people there. Let people live and be happy. The vast majority of muslim pakistani people are lovely, they just get on with their lives and do what they need to do.

I'm a British Indian and proud to be one. I don't want my Indian (Hindu) identity removed from me and be called just British. I support India when they play cricket and support England as long as it's not against India.

If the so called (tommy lot) want us gone then so be it, but I guarantee the infrastructure and critical services will fall apart. I pay a hell of alot of tax in this country and if someone offers me a better option elsewhere - i'd be off.

I grew up in the 70's and 80's when racism was rife, my parents sent me to a school where there were hardly any brown people, they didn't want me to go where the rest of my indian mates went. I got loads of grief. I was foolish enough to go with it and try to be one of the english boys - guess what they said. "you're ok as you're one of us" - this also carried on during the 90's when at Uni and the crowd I hung around it. I wanted to fit in. But it was always the same. "You're ok, one of us".

I'm older now - I don't think people's racist attitudes ever changed, they just didn't express them anymore. Now Tommy, Farage et al have told them it's ok to express it. I really do feel for people now, we are living in a scary world. Abuse has started again, we got some in one of the pubs I drink in. My mates got it at City at the weekend.

Multiculturism is an acceptance of difference but being able to live and integrate. The world was doing great and now some fuckwits want to spoil it.

You may not have seen his earlier post kids about the population of Manningham. "(Muslim) Kids raised in Manningham in Bradford and stay there sealed off from mainstream British culture..."

He hasn't replied to whether he'd be happier with fewer Asians in Bradford and more in 98% white Ilkley.

 

[abu13]

There is a house close to where i live, a 3 bed semi in a block if 6 houses, one of these houses was recently sold to a builder who is now converting it into a 6 bed HMO, the main concern being that they may use this property to house migrants.

The owner of the attached property and the others closeby are obviously very concerned about who may be put in there and also their house values should they decide to leave, it cant be right that this is allowed.

No wonder people are becoming more right wing, the government dont give a fuck about us anymore.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Your promotion of the Great Replacement Theory

You what? Where exactly did I promote that racist conspiracy theory?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

What I do know right now is labelling that pot pouri of people on that march as Tommy Robinson clones does absolutely nothing other than make the nice folk in here feel better about themselves, and that will not achieve a single fucking thing.

Being clear that they are marching in a racist cause and that is not acceptable is also important, and not incompatible with pulling the rug.

Saying that marching in support of Tommy Robinson is an expression of "legitimate concerns" does nothing other than legitimise and encourage more racism.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

If the entire £11 a week rise were over the threshold, they'll get £238.80 a week instead of the £230 they are getting now. The number of over-65s paying tax nearly doubled under the Tories (2010-2024) - was that a good thing or a bad thing? Surely it meant most pensioners were better off. 60% already pay tax because of other income.

Only 38% of pensioners get the “ new” state pension.
62% are on the much lower pre 2016 rate.

 

[Vic]

Bloody hell!

There's nothing random about mentioning Bluethrunthru because he does exactly what I stated he does, in fact it's all he does.

As for alternative opinions being dog whistles, oh just piss off, have the balls to call me a racist if that's what you believe.

I've explained till I'm blue in the face what I mean, if I've insulted anyone it's because they deliberately pretend not to understand, and you know they're doing it for that reason, don't you start pretending as well, when what they and you really mean is you simply disagree.

In truth I'm struggling to understand what's going on myself, I was talking with my brothers at the match on Sunday and they had a different take, and what was noticeable is that while here in Halifax there's flags everywhere, there seemed very few in Manchester from what I saw. The only thing I do know is pigeon holing people is a mugs game, it gets you absolutely nowhere. There are some out and out villains and grifters in this, and if we want to prise those crowds away from those fuckers we have to be a damn sight more nuanced than shouting racist at everyone at that march.

You might think I'm a racist, fine you can believe what you want, but nothing I've ever stated could be interpreted as racist, absolutely nothing.

What you really want is for me to be a racist coz it seems I don't agree with you, and everyone who disagrees with you it seems is a racist, and it's that attitude that has led the left to leave me, I never left them. and it hasn't led me to run off into the arms of shysters like Robinson either, I'm where I've always been, the same bloke who organised a Rock Against Racism concert in Bradford when I was Student Union President, the same bloke who had three NF thugs jump him outside Uni, the same bloke who was thrown in the back of a Black Mariah at the Anti-Nazi League march in Leicester and the same bloke who was at the march where Blair Peach died.

I'm the bloke who travelled the world the best part of twenty years, particularly Africa and the Middle East who has, if I say so myself, one on the best High Life collections, certainly of the classic 70s and 80's period. in the whole of erm?? Well West Yorkshire at least, probably.

And I lived in Nigeria for three years mostly with the Muslim Hausa in the north.

Back in the 60s Bob Dylan wrote in Ballad of a Thin Man

..."Something is happening here/ But you don't know what it is/ Do you, Mr. Jones?"

And he was talking about the counter culture that was sweeping America.

Well, I'm an inquisitive Mr Jones, I don't know what's happening, but unlike Dylan's Mr Jones I want to know, and I refuse to do a runner for the most convenient ideological bolt hole coz it makes me feel cosy and virtuous.

So, much as I hate playing up to your stereotype of insulting nice folk, can I say from the bottom of my heart fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Seriously, that's a fascinating personal account.

It's just that, even if we think we understand the principle, I doubt even those who like your posts really understand how a critique of "ethno nationalism" versus "multiculturalism" deals with the thread title. Do you really think that better integration would make the marchers feel better? There was a little diversion here about the people happily becoming British citizens - but would Tommy Robinson be ecstatic about more non-white people wanting to be British?

 

[bluenova]

Only 38% of pensioners get the “ new” state pension.
62% are on the much lower pre 2016 rate.

Wouldn't that be people who opted out of SERPS, so would have been making larger contributions to a private pension?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Seriously, that's a fascinating personal account.

It's just that, even if we think we understand the principle, I doubt even those who like your posts really understand how a critique of "ethno nationalism" versus "multiculturalism" deals with the thread title. Do you really think that better integration would make the marchers feel better? There was a little diversion here about the people happily becoming British citizens - but would Tommy Robinson be ecstatic about more non-white people wanting to be British?

I'll get back to you, I'm taking some time out so I'm not sure when. I'm feeling a tad bruised from all the affection I'm getting from the nice people in here, so I'm off to be abused somewhere else for a bit.

 

[Tiattos_Waterbottle]

I vote green you daft donk and have battered the Tories loads when they were in power and said I wouldn't ever vote reform. Your problem appears to be you make wrong conclusions about posters. Stop lying about what posters have said and I wouldn't need to be glib( glib? Oh my God are you 6 yrs of age, the outrage:-))

Try reading posts properly and think a while, this may help you long term. Do you want to belong to the Rik from young ones tribute act that persists on here?

If your gonna put people in boxes, put them in the right ones especially with your allergy to flippancy.

You got a like off the forum narcissist though, score:-)

Ttfn

And I'm being called sanctimonious!

Nor did I say you were right, you do oddly defend and play court jester to the right of this forum.

Who's lied about what posters have said? Is there any evidence of this?

I don't think a six year old would know what glib means, but fuck if you're not a shallow insincere fence sitter who thinks cause he voted green, he can say whatever he likes to people on the left, and get no pushback.

Ah, the young ones again. I'll do something a little newer than that. If I am Rik from the Young Ones, then you're Gerald Broflovski from South Park, specifically the episode where he loves the smell of his own farts. Might be too new for you to know what I'm talking about, mind. Like the Young Ones was 'too old' for me, apparently.

Oh, and sod off about likes, you and the usual right wing polemicals all like each others posts all the bastard time, it's not a popularity contest, but if it was, you'd all be getting ratio'd.

 

[Tiattos_Waterbottle]

I'll get back to you, I'm taking some time out so I'm not sure when. I'm feeling a tad bruised from all the affection I'm getting from the nice people in here, so I'm off to be abused somewhere else for a bit.

Maybe you should watch the Rag twatting video you sent me. Maybe it'll cheer you up, because I'm peachy, pal.