The Same Old Traps

[waspish]

The only review that's needs to be done is why didn't Mancini get the players he WANTED!

he wanted every one of those players. But some were second or even third choice. That's what happens in football-to everyone.

He's been healthily backed in The market but he's the one who let AJ and de Jong go and replaced them -at a cost- with players who look suspiciously like they may be inferior. He carries the can for that, like it or not. Every manager in the prem wishes they had been given more cash to spend. If We go backwards this year and i hear him start to blame the board I'll be pretty pissed off with him to be honest.

Yeah you have a point there regarding De Jong I would kept him but its still early days our new signing hopefully come good..

 

[OB1]

Mancini's managerial record in European competition is far from great and it is not looking like improving in the short-term. I have not given up on him finding a solution to that failing but I wouldn't claim high confidence that he will do so. If he makes it to ext season, it will be his last shot at Europe with City if he does not make it beyond the group stage to a least the QF, if not SF.

I was sure we'd win the league for a but a brief period last season, I'm not this year. We had a hugely disappointing summer in the transfer market, not all Bobby's fault by any means but we still have a team that lacks too much pace and Bobby must surely share some of the blame for that. He has is work cut out to retain his job.

Strongly disagree. Europe is not some mythical place where every team plays better football its just that there are about 10 teams in Europe that are about our level and we keep drawing them.

Not exactly sure which bit you are disagreeing with but I'm well aware that Poznan, Aris, Turin, Munich, Naples, Kyiv, Lisbon, Madrid and Amsterdam are not mythical places; I'm also aware that some of those places contained teams that aren't or weren't in the top ten European teams when we failed to win away in Europe. I'm also aware that Mancini's Inter out of the UCL to less talented opponents.

Regardless of whether any City supporter likes it or not, success in European competition is likely to be seen as important by the club's owner and Bobby is dogged by a reputation for underachieving on that front, which will only build (along with pressure) until he proves that he can do better in Europe. I truly hope he does that at City because, aside from being a Blue, I was a proponent of appointing him to replace Hughes well in advance of him actually doing so.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Deluded Dave

Son, you're a little kid who's name is josh. Don't ever post at me again, please, as your comments are as interesting and relevant to me as my mates daft teenage kid who tags along for some home games and likes to talk about the singing and his Xbox.

This is where I can't take you seriously. In the past you've posted decent posts about different subjects, but you also dish out some absolute bull shit yourself.

You've called people deluded yourself very recently and have ridiculed people wanting to do new things with regards to atmosphere...someone calls you deluded and you can't take it, some people called some lines in a song you made up a bit shit and you couldn't take it. That's doesn't add up. Well, it actually does, it adds up to you being a hypocrite.

You wait and wait (I bet you even get pissed off when we go on great unbeaten runs) for Mancini to make mistakes, then you're there giving him shit. You don't take anything he has done positively into the equation, you just say he's not good enough for the job. The thing is, other top managers have made mistakes too. Ferguson has got it wrong in Europe many times, he's played the wrong players and four in midfield and gone out a fair few times. Plus if we would have had the start to the domestic season that Mourinho has had you'd be calling for Mancini's head saying it isn't good enough.

I'm not saying Roberto is the best manager in the world, but he's doing a good job for us and is constantly making improvements with us. We've got a long long way to go. I predicted it would be five years after the takeover before we were the finished article and its only been four. Just 100 weeks ago being a top three Prem side and Champions Lg performers was something we weren't good enough to be, now we're at the start of being a top three Prem side and CL performers but we're still fresh and naive and have a lot to learn and improve on.

That doesn't mean sacking the manager is the thing we need. We just need more time. I've quoted you over the last two or three years before and said to you "five years before we'll be the finished article" "it all takes time" "five years before we'll be the finished article" and yet you're here again saying he's not good enough.

I posted this about Mancini recently when he was in charge of his 100th game with City:

I'd like to see a thread that says "Mancini's 500th Premier League Game" in the years ahead. Only by then will I judge how great Roberto has been as City's manager. He's done some great things so far but there is still a lot to be done too.

He's changed this team and club in many ways, and all for the better. There is an absolute professionalism running through the club. He's got rid of some trouble makers and some he felt weren't professional enough, as well as some who weren't good enough. He has bought very well and has some great systems in place. There is a winning mentality and confidence running through everyone too.

In his first half a season he was just finding his feet, anything that happened didn't really matter and no blame could be placed on him for us not reaching the Champions League qualifying round spot because he had only been here five minutes.
In his first full season he had us defending like warriors and was learning about the Premier League and all the teams in it. Many complained about the negative tactics but I think he was educating himself on how to play Premier League football and couldn't have done that any other way at the same time as getting us as high in the table as was possible. By the end of the season we finished in the hallowed 'top 3' and won the FA Cup; a fantastic achievement. But in only scoring 68 goals, we still had a lot to improve on.
Last season we were just phenomenal at times. He knew all about the other teams and felt he knew how to exploit them. And how we did. We won the title; a fantastic achievement. But in only picking up one win from any team away from home from 6th to 14th (Norwich), we still have a lot to improve on.

As well as he's done (and he has), he's still got a lot to prove as a manager. He has to be able to show what he can do in Europe, he still has to show if he can mount challenges in more than one competition a season, he still has to show if he can build and then rebuild a squad as one comes to its end through players moving on or coming to the end of their careers, he has to show how he can bounce back from a season without winning a trophy...

I don't judge things based on a few small facts I see in front of me in a short space of time. So if we do go a season trophyless I'm not going to be calling for his head, like i know some will. I'm going to go with the flow and enjoy what's going on now and make decisions based on achievements and where we may improve going forward when he has answered those queries above.

But so far, so good...very good!

"Mancini wooaah ooaah
Mancini woah oah oah oah
He came from Italy, to manage Man City"

And that all still stands (well, it was only last month).

In Roberto I trust. He will make mistakes. Some minor, some major. Saying he's not up to the job or calling for him to be sacked is quite fucking stupid, though.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Mancini's managerial record in European competition is far from great and it is not looking like improving in the short-term. I have not given up on him finding a solution to that failing but I wouldn't claim high confidence that he will do so. If he makes it to ext season, it will be his last shot at Europe with City if he does not make it beyond the group stage to a least the QF, if not SF.

I was sure we'd win the league for a but a brief period last season, I'm not this year. We had a hugely disappointing summer in the transfer market, not all Bobby's fault by any means but we still have a team that lacks too much pace and Bobby must surely share some of the blame for that. He has is work cut out to retain his job.

Strongly disagree. Europe is not some mythical place where every team plays better football its just that there are about 10 teams in Europe that are about our level and we keep drawing them.

Not exactly sure which bit you are disagreeing with but I'm well aware that Poznan, Aris, Turin, Munich, Naples, Kyiv, Lisbon, Madrid and Amsterdam are not mythical places; I'm also aware that some of those places contained teams that aren't or weren't in the top ten European teams when we failed to win away in Europe. I'm also aware that Mancini's Inter out of the UCL to less talented opponents.

Regardless of whether any City supporter likes it or not, success in European competition is likely to be seen as important by the club's owner and Bobby is dogged by a reputation for underachieving on that front, which will only build (along with pressure) until he proves that he can do better in Europe. I truly hope he does that at City because, aside from being a Blue, I was a proponent of appointing him to replace Hughes well in advance of him actually doing so.

My point is that isolating European results is no guide to how good a manager is. Location of the opposition is not important just the strength. See my earlier post:

This is what counts:

<a class="postlink" href="http://clubelo.com/ManCity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://clubelo.com/ManCity/</a>

and its based on all results. Focusing in on Europe makes as much sense as focusing in on London.

Any criticism of Mancini that starts with "In Europe" is nonsense and they are all over this board.

Tell me this: Why does it matter where a team comes from?

There is no meaningful "European record" You might as well isolate Mancini's record against Merseyside teams as an example of something.

There is only one record that counts and that is Mancini's overall record against ALL teams including Chelsea, Liverpool, Ajax....wherever.

The destination means fuck all. There are good teams and bad teams all over the World unless we are saying a victory against Malmo counts more than 1-6 at the swamp?

Your looking at a subset of results based on location to prove a non-existant point.

Mightly pissed off today with some blues who have used a subset of results to support getting rid of Mancini.

 

[Marvin]

Strongly disagree. Europe is not some mythical place where every team plays better football its just that there are about 10 teams in Europe that are about our level and we keep drawing them.

Not exactly sure which bit you are disagreeing with but I'm well aware that Poznan, Aris, Turin, Munich, Naples, Kyiv, Lisbon, Madrid and Amsterdam are not mythical places; I'm also aware that some of those places contained teams that aren't or weren't in the top ten European teams when we failed to win away in Europe. I'm also aware that Mancini's Inter out of the UCL to less talented opponents.

Regardless of whether any City supporter likes it or not, success in European competition is likely to be seen as important by the club's owner and Bobby is dogged by a reputation for underachieving on that front, which will only build (along with pressure) until he proves that he can do better in Europe. I truly hope he does that at City because, aside from being a Blue, I was a proponent of appointing him to replace Hughes well in advance of him actually doing so.

My point is that isolating European results is no guide to how good a manager is. Location of the opposition is not important just the strength. See my earlier post:

This is what counts:

<a class="postlink" href="http://clubelo.com/ManCity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://clubelo.com/ManCity/</a>

and its based on all results. Focusing in on Europe makes as much sense as focusing in on London.

Any criticism of Mancini that starts with "In Europe" is nonsense and they are all over this board.

Tell me this: Why does it matter where a team comes from?

There is no meaningful "European record" You might as well isolate Mancini's record against Merseyside teams as an example of something.

There is only one record that counts and that is Mancini's overall record against ALL teams including Chelsea, Liverpool, Ajax....wherever.

The destination means fuck all. There are good teams and bad teams all over the World unless we are saying a victory against Malmo counts more than 1-6 at the swamp?

Your looking at a subset of results based on location to prove a non-existant point.

Mightly pissed off today with some blues who have used a subset of results to support getting rid of Mancini.

So why do we consistently struggle in Europe then? If football is homogeneous then you'd expect City to succeed in Europe as well.

 

[hilts]

Deluded Dave

Son, you're a little kid who's name is josh. Don't ever post at me again, please, as your comments are as interesting and relevant to me as my mates daft teenage kid who tags along for some home games and likes to talk about the singing and his Xbox.

This is where I can't take you seriously. In the past you've posted decent posts about different subjects, but you also dish out some absolute bull shit yourself.

You've called people deluded yourself very recently and have ridiculed people wanting to do new things with regards to atmosphere...someone calls you deluded and you can't take it, some people called some lines in a song you made up a bit shit and you couldn't take it. That's doesn't add up. Well, it actually does, it adds up to you being a hypocrite.

You wait and wait (I bet you even get pissed off when we go on great unbeaten runs) for Mancini to make mistakes, then you're there giving him shit. You don't take anything he has done positively into the equation, you just say he's not good enough for the job. The thing is, other top managers have made mistakes too. Ferguson has got it wrong in Europe many times, he's played the wrong players and four in midfield and gone out a fair few times. Plus if we would have had the start to the domestic season that Mourinho has had you'd be calling for Mancini's head saying it isn't good enough.

I'm not saying Roberto is the best manager in the world, but he's doing a good job for us and is constantly making improvements with us. We've got a long long way to go. I predicted it would be five years after the takeover before we were the finished article and its only been four. Just 100 weeks ago being a top three Prem side and Champions Lg performers was something we weren't good enough to be, now we're at the start of being a top three Prem side and CL performers but we're still fresh and naive and have a lot to learn and improve on.

That doesn't mean sacking the manager is the thing we need. We just need more time. I've quoted you over the last two or three years before and said to you "five years before we'll be the finished article" "it all takes time" "five years before we'll be the finished article" and yet you're here again saying he's not good enough.

I posted this about Mancini recently when he was in charge of his 100th game with City:

I'd like to see a thread that says "Mancini's 500th Premier League Game" in the years ahead. Only by then will I judge how great Roberto has been as City's manager. He's done some great things so far but there is still a lot to be done too.

He's changed this team and club in many ways, and all for the better. There is an absolute professionalism running through the club. He's got rid of some trouble makers and some he felt weren't professional enough, as well as some who weren't good enough. He has bought very well and has some great systems in place. There is a winning mentality and confidence running through everyone too.

In his first half a season he was just finding his feet, anything that happened didn't really matter and no blame could be placed on him for us not reaching the Champions League qualifying round spot because he had only been here five minutes.
In his first full season he had us defending like warriors and was learning about the Premier League and all the teams in it. Many complained about the negative tactics but I think he was educating himself on how to play Premier League football and couldn't have done that any other way at the same time as getting us as high in the table as was possible. By the end of the season we finished in the hallowed 'top 3' and won the FA Cup; a fantastic achievement. But in only scoring 68 goals, we still had a lot to improve on.
Last season we were just phenomenal at times. He knew all about the other teams and felt he knew how to exploit them. And how we did. We won the title; a fantastic achievement. But in only picking up one win from any team away from home from 6th to 14th (Norwich), we still have a lot to improve on.

As well as he's done (and he has), he's still got a lot to prove as a manager. He has to be able to show what he can do in Europe, he still has to show if he can mount challenges in more than one competition a season, he still has to show if he can build and then rebuild a squad as one comes to its end through players moving on or coming to the end of their careers, he has to show how he can bounce back from a season without winning a trophy...

I don't judge things based on a few small facts I see in front of me in a short space of time. So if we do go a season trophyless I'm not going to be calling for his head, like i know some will. I'm going to go with the flow and enjoy what's going on now and make decisions based on achievements and where we may improve going forward when he has answered those queries above.

But so far, so good...very good!

"Mancini wooaah ooaah
Mancini woah oah oah oah
He came from Italy, to manage Man City"

And that all still stands (well, it was only last month).

In Roberto I trust. He will make mistakes. Some minor, some major. Saying he's not up to the job or calling for him to be sacked is quite fucking stupid, though.

I wouldn't bother mate he doesn't rate Mancini and that's it, add to that he believes he has a superior knowledge of football than everybody else

 

[TFC]

Enjoyed that OP, I will consider myself 'covered in Goo'.

;)

 

[OB1]

My point is that isolating European results is no guide to how good a manager is. Location of the opposition is not important just the strength. See my earlier post:

This is what counts:

<a class="postlink" href="http://clubelo.com/ManCity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://clubelo.com/ManCity/</a>

and its based on all results. Focusing in on Europe makes as much sense as focusing in on London.

Any criticism of Mancini that starts with "In Europe" is nonsense and they are all over this board.

Tell me this: Why does it matter where a team comes from?

There is no meaningful "European record" You might as well isolate Mancini's record against Merseyside teams as an example of something.

There is only one record that counts and that is Mancini's overall record against ALL teams including Chelsea, Liverpool, Ajax....wherever.

The destination means fuck all. There are good teams and bad teams all over the World unless we are saying a victory against Malmo counts more than 1-6 at the swamp?

Your looking at a subset of results based on location to prove a non-existant point.

Mightly pissed off today with some blues who have used a subset of results to support getting rid of Mancini.

So why do we consistently struggle in Europe then? If football is homogeneous then you'd expect City to succeed in Europe as well.

Football isn't homogeneous and playing in European is markedly different to playing in the EPL; although I'd have said less so to Serie A. However, whether or not these differences show up deficiencies in Mancini's management, or whether or not it is unfair to isolate his European form as a barometer of his ability, does not change the fact that winning the UCL is probably a matter of importance to his employers.

For now, the EPL remains the priority, by a distance, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Pam]

Deluded Dave

Son, you're a little kid who's name is josh. Don't ever post at me again, please, as your comments are as interesting and relevant to me as my mates daft teenage kid who tags along for some home games and likes to talk about the singing and his Xbox.

This is where I can't take you seriously. In the past you've posted decent posts about different subjects, but you also dish out some absolute bull shit yourself.

You've called people deluded yourself very recently and have ridiculed people wanting to do new things with regards to atmosphere...someone calls you deluded and you can't take it, some people called some lines in a song you made up a bit shit and you couldn't take it. That's doesn't add up. Well, it actually does, it adds up to you being a hypocrite.

You wait and wait (I bet you even get pissed off when we go on great unbeaten runs) for Mancini to make mistakes, then you're there giving him shit. You don't take anything he has done positively into the equation, you just say he's not good enough for the job. The thing is, other top managers have made mistakes too. Ferguson has got it wrong in Europe many times, he's played the wrong players and four in midfield and gone out a fair few times. Plus if we would have had the start to the domestic season that Mourinho has had you'd be calling for Mancini's head saying it isn't good enough.

I'm not saying Roberto is the best manager in the world, but he's doing a good job for us and is constantly making improvements with us. We've got a long long way to go. I predicted it would be five years after the takeover before we were the finished article and its only been four. Just 100 weeks ago being a top three Prem side and Champions Lg performers was something we weren't good enough to be, now we're at the start of being a top three Prem side and CL performers but we're still fresh and naive and have a lot to learn and improve on.

That doesn't mean sacking the manager is the thing we need. We just need more time. I've quoted you over the last two or three years before and said to you "five years before we'll be the finished article" "it all takes time" "five years before we'll be the finished article" and yet you're here again saying he's not good enough.

I posted this about Mancini recently when he was in charge of his 100th game with City:

I'd like to see a thread that says "Mancini's 500th Premier League Game" in the years ahead. Only by then will I judge how great Roberto has been as City's manager. He's done some great things so far but there is still a lot to be done too.

He's changed this team and club in many ways, and all for the better. There is an absolute professionalism running through the club. He's got rid of some trouble makers and some he felt weren't professional enough, as well as some who weren't good enough. He has bought very well and has some great systems in place. There is a winning mentality and confidence running through everyone too.

In his first half a season he was just finding his feet, anything that happened didn't really matter and no blame could be placed on him for us not reaching the Champions League qualifying round spot because he had only been here five minutes.
In his first full season he had us defending like warriors and was learning about the Premier League and all the teams in it. Many complained about the negative tactics but I think he was educating himself on how to play Premier League football and couldn't have done that any other way at the same time as getting us as high in the table as was possible. By the end of the season we finished in the hallowed 'top 3' and won the FA Cup; a fantastic achievement. But in only scoring 68 goals, we still had a lot to improve on.
Last season we were just phenomenal at times. He knew all about the other teams and felt he knew how to exploit them. And how we did. We won the title; a fantastic achievement. But in only picking up one win from any team away from home from 6th to 14th (Norwich), we still have a lot to improve on.

As well as he's done (and he has), he's still got a lot to prove as a manager. He has to be able to show what he can do in Europe, he still has to show if he can mount challenges in more than one competition a season, he still has to show if he can build and then rebuild a squad as one comes to its end through players moving on or coming to the end of their careers, he has to show how he can bounce back from a season without winning a trophy...

I don't judge things based on a few small facts I see in front of me in a short space of time. So if we do go a season trophyless I'm not going to be calling for his head, like i know some will. I'm going to go with the flow and enjoy what's going on now and make decisions based on achievements and where we may improve going forward when he has answered those queries above.

But so far, so good...very good!

"Mancini wooaah ooaah
Mancini woah oah oah oah
He came from Italy, to manage Man City"

Best post of the week, danburge82. Sod the haters. Headers gotta' hate, after all.

 

[Marvin]

My point is that isolating European results is no guide to how good a manager is. Location of the opposition is not important just the strength. See my earlier post:

This is what counts:

<a class="postlink" href="http://clubelo.com/ManCity/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://clubelo.com/ManCity/</a>

and its based on all results. Focusing in on Europe makes as much sense as focusing in on London.

Any criticism of Mancini that starts with "In Europe" is nonsense and they are all over this board.

Tell me this: Why does it matter where a team comes from?

There is no meaningful "European record" You might as well isolate Mancini's record against Merseyside teams as an example of something.

There is only one record that counts and that is Mancini's overall record against ALL teams including Chelsea, Liverpool, Ajax....wherever.

The destination means fuck all. There are good teams and bad teams all over the World unless we are saying a victory against Malmo counts more than 1-6 at the swamp?

Your looking at a subset of results based on location to prove a non-existant point.

Mightly pissed off today with some blues who have used a subset of results to support getting rid of Mancini.

So why do we consistently struggle in Europe then? If football is homogeneous then you'd expect City to succeed in Europe as well.

Football isn't homogeneous and playing in European is markedly different to playing in the EPL; although I'd have said less so to Serie A. However, whether or not these differences show up deficiencies in Mancini's management, or whether or not it is unfair to isolate his European form as a barometer of his ability, does not change the fact that winning the UCL is probably a matter of importance to his employers.

For now, the EPL remains the priority, by a distance, as far as I am concerned.

It is for me too. But the Champions League follows closely behind and the club needs the Champions League to develop.

Dortmund won two successive League titles, and last season they were as poor as we are now in Europe yet domestically they were far better than Bayern Munich. Perhaps it's beyond understanding. I am confused. But it would not be a shock to me if Mancini was sacked. City were a shambles in midweek and the manager said he had not prepared the team properly - evidently he did not. For the manager of the most ambitious club in Europe he should be Very careful what he says and does.