The Same Old Traps

Shhhhhhhhhhh

Keep this to yourselves but I'm hearing through the grapevine that Mourinho's on his way and he's bringing Ronaldo but only if Pep and Messi can't make it here first.

I know, don't thank me, but don't forget, you heard it here first.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh











Great read by the way, in the main.
 
Cobwebcat said:
Didsbury Dave said:
Cobwebcat said:
Didsbury Dave: You're an idiot.

Not the best structured or most reasonable response to my post to be honest.

Why do I get all the einsteins on my case?


You know why? Because today Dave you really deseve it.

This is what counts:

http://clubelo.com/ManCity/

and its based on all results. Focusing in on Europe makes as much sense as focusing in on London.

Any criticism of Mancini that starts with "In Europe" is nonsense and they are all over this board.

Tell me this: Why does it matter where a team comes from?

There is no meaningful "European record" You might as well isolate Mancini's record against Merseyside teams as an example of something.

There is only one record that counts and that is Mancini's overall record against ALL teams including Chelsea, Liverpool, Ajax....wherever.

The destination means fuck all. There are good teams and bad teams all over the World unless we are saying a victory against Malmo counts more than 1-6 at the swamp?

Your looking at a subset of results based on location to prove a non-existant point.

Mightly pissed off today with some blues who have used a subset of results to support getting rid of Mancini.


And as for your theory that Mancini isn't great because he has had a lot to spend I read elsewhere:

http://transferpriceindex.com/2012/...all-time-best-managers-versus-the-mxir-model/

They are the facts. You are still an idiot (at least today)

Happy now?
not really, because you called me an idiot and then didn't mention a single point I made in my post, then churned a load of shite at me.

For a start, even though I fully accept my role as a whipping boy for the distraught happy clappers, find me a post or comment I made after weds where I asked for Mancini to be sacked. I'll give you a clue: don't waste your time searching.

You'll also see that after I commented that his tenure won't and shouldn't be looked at for the rest of the season, you'll see that every single comment I made in my answer to the op were about mancini's management style in general, not in Europe.

So read the post before you carry on spouting about people being 'idiots' because they don't share your opinion.
 
I'll even give you the post seeing as you seem to be to angry to read properly:


Didsbury Dave said:
Goo said:
Mancini is a great manager. Deep down we all know it,

No we don't. Speak for yourself.

There have been doubts and suspicion about his true quality amongst a proportion of our fanbase since his arrival. And many of these these aren't brainless fans but knowledgeable ones. Some senior football writers echo this view.

He's stubborn, strong and single minded. No doubt about that. But that strength has a flip-side in that he is not a popular manager amongst the players. That in itself brings problems because if they aren't bought in, they don't deliver. He's also tactically awful at times: he tries to be clever and doesn't carry it off.

He won't be going anywhere for the time being, nor should he. But he will be looked at in May next year and if this season is a flop I suspect he'll be gone. That's how it should be. There's been a lot of mud thrown at him, and he's thrown a lot of mud, since his arrival and the question is: how much of it has stuck and how many brownie points did the title bring him?

I'd say he has to win the league now or he's on thin ice. But I'm second guessing Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon here. It's tough to guage how important is the Champions League to them in the here and now, and how much of a medium/long-term view they take on it.
 
Goo said:
I have been avoiding this board since the Ajax loss, but since returning I am not surprised one bit to see us falling into the same old traps that we always do after a loss. The media cracks the 'blame game' whip and we all march in line. It really is astonishing for a group of fans to be so conscious of the way the media works one day, and the next day to then lead the line of dissent conducted by the tabloid press.

The Mancini outer's have been out en masse since the final whistle in Amsterdam and it felt like the posts were already written in anticipation.

European football isn't something that the bank balance can govern. That just helps you on your way. The time necessary to bring a club from regular entrants to the Champions League, to regular knock out places is vast. I'm sure a few statistical boffins could come up with a few outliers, but the fact remains that throughout history, English clubs have taken a very long time to come to terms with the rigors of European football. We have a manger who has won us the FA Cup and the league title in the last two years. Remind me how long it took Ferguson to win anything at Old Trafford? Well it was 6 years. It also took him a fair chunk of time to be able to show any convincing upward trajectory in Europe. Wenger can also be used for historical reference. One of the best managers in the premier league era and still not one the Champions League. That says far more about the Champions League than Arsene Wenger, that's for sure. Finally, the last yard stick I'll use is Chelsea. The never ending changing of managers, high player turnover, and like us, millions of pounds pumped into winning the competition and they needed all the luck in the world to finally clinch it almost a decade after his project began. 6th in the league, yet champions of Europe.

Why can't that be us? Well it would start if we were seeding in pot 1. In our maiden season in the champions league we were seeded to fail. I know that imbalance of fairness can be broken from time to time, but it's still worth noting it's existence. This season we've been in pot two yet had a group that makes us look like pot 3 once again. Dortmund, Read, and Ajax are our current group and we're expected to do just as well as a team handed Cluj, Galatasaray, and Braga. Just because we don't hear Dortmund's name when the biggest clubs in Europe are mentioned (AC, Inter, Barca, Real, Bayern, etc) doesn't mean they're mugs for the taking. Last night when we were all sulking over a defeat, Dortmund were celebrating beating Real Madrid. That's a big deal when you consider Real's players, manager, and Champions League experience. Ajax nearly held the same team to a draw in Amsterdam. We're not playing poor teams by any stretch of the imagination. I firmly believe that you need three things to do well in the Champions League; Top quality players/Top quality manager/Top quality experience of playing together. We have the first two. The third is in the process of being secured.

Mancini is a great manager. Deep down we all know it, but the slow dripping of media-conjured doubt over his job makes everyone shake like a shitting dog with fear that he might not be the man. The only managers who have won the Champions League in such a short time are managers who have inherited the first and final necessities I mentioned above, and have themselves been the second requirement. Mancini is the second, but inherited none of the others. There is an argument he initially had some quality players, but mostly not CL quality. Now we have the players, the manager, and we're just waiting on that elusive experience. We need time to develop as a team, as players, and as a club. With that in mind we should all be saying "Fuck it, I can see the bigger picture here"

I've also noticed that even the new signings are getting it in the neck. Hardly any of them have even featured yet. Again if we look at the history we know it takes some players (if not most players) months to get into the rhythm of their new team, why should this lot be any different? I distinctly remember the resident flappers wishing we'd signed Van Der Vaart instead of Silva during his early days. Looking back that is sheer lunacy, and he's arguable our best player, not to mention one of the best attacking midfielders in the world! Same happened with Yaya when he first signed. Now he's widely regarded as the best midfielder in the league, and rightly so. Why should we expect Garcia to fire on all cylinders after one or two games? Sure that'd be lovely, but it's not realistic. Nastasic looks quality and young, just what we wanted instead of Savic. Sinclair is an as-good-as-version of Johnson, who is younger and seems very willing to learn. Again, exactly what we wanted from a young squad player. Maicon has vast experience, could make our first XI while also provides cover allowing Micah to move to centre back when needed, and hopefully will have a 'Vieira' effect on the younger players. Again, ticking important boxes. Finally Rodwell. A young promising player who with any luck will take over from Barry when he either moves on or hangs his boots. Last summer when he was rumored to join United, people were hailing him as the new Scholes. Be that prediction true or not, it just goes to show that he's rated very highly. Give the guys a chance. These transfers are not "baffling" or hard to understand in the slightest. They fulfill necessary roles in our team.

This club we all love is forever showing evidence that we're heading in the right direction since Mancini took over. Just because we hit a few stumbling blocks (namely in Europe) along the way is no reason to assume he's tactically inept! Short term evaluation is definitely the wrong way to go about assessing ones managerial credentials. That's been proven to us time and time again.

"There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know." - Harry S. Truman


DISCLAIMER: Before anyone decides to bite my head off, this is all my opinion of course, as always :)

Couldn't agree more. And I admire the fact that you only ignored these boards until Thursday. I needed almost 48 hours before reading anything on here and there is still certain threads with cry baby titles that look like they're worth avoiding for a bit longer, including the responses to this thread. I bet someone's called the OP a happy clapper somewhere on this thread

But anyway, well said, OP. Why can't people be disappointed without engaging in stupid destructive, twatteries about the best manager our club has seen for a generation? I don't like that shit and its counter-productive.
 
Josh Blue said:
Deluded Dave
Son, you're a little kid who's name is josh. Don't ever post at me again, please, as your comments are as interesting and relevant to me as my mates daft teenage kid who tags along for some home games and likes to talk about the singing and his Xbox.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
I'll even give you the post seeing as you seem to be to angry to read properly:


Didsbury Dave said:
Goo said:
Mancini is a great manager. Deep down we all know it,

No we don't. Speak for yourself.

There have been doubts and suspicion about his true quality amongst a proportion of our fanbase since his arrival. And many of these these aren't brainless fans but knowledgeable ones. Some senior football writers echo this view.

He's stubborn, strong and single minded. No doubt about that. But that strength has a flip-side in that he is not a popular manager amongst the players. That in itself brings problems because if they aren't bought in, they don't deliver. He's also tactically awful at times: he tries to be clever and doesn't carry it off.

He won't be going anywhere for the time being, nor should he. But he will be looked at in May next year and if this season is a flop I suspect he'll be gone. That's how it should be. There's been a lot of mud thrown at him, and he's thrown a lot of mud, since his arrival and the question is: how much of it has stuck and how many brownie points did the title bring him?

I'd say he has to win the league now or he's on thin ice. But I'm second guessing Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon here. It's tough to guage how important is the Champions League to them in the here and now, and how much of a medium/long-term view they take on it.
I agree with you DD.

No one is saying Mancini is incompetent, but he the performance and tactics in the last 2 European campaigns have been deficient and he is responsible for that.

Review at the end of the season
 
Definitely marv. I keep saying, he is judged on the whole lot, all results and success. And he will surely be judged on the future; is he deemed the man to lead 'the project'?

Going out of Europe again doesn't help
Him at all, but winning the league would make him bombproof. It did last season.
 
waspish said:
The only review that's needs to be done is why didn't Mancini get the players he WANTED!
he wanted every one of those players. But some were second or even third choice. That's what happens in football-to everyone.

He's been healthily backed in The market but he's the one who let AJ and de Jong go and replaced them -at a cost- with players who look suspiciously like they may be inferior. He carries the can for that, like it or not. Every manager in the prem wishes they had been given more cash to spend. If We go backwards this year and i hear him start to blame the board I'll be pretty pissed off with him to be honest.
 

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