The Scottish Politics thread

[Octavian]

It is a reason why Scotland’s economy is smaller than it could be without making a significant difference to England’s. A net migration of 400,000 to England is about 7% of Scotland’s population and hence GDP lost whereas it’s less than 1% that England gains.

That’s presuming they’re all working which is more likely closer to 250,00-300,000 somewhere.

It’s still nowhere near enough to bridge the gap.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

The short answer to your question is no, but then I don't see much opposition to the Conservatives in the UK/English parliament. There is a difference - in Scotland because of a voting system that causes the make up of the parliament to be a better match for the votes received, the SNP do have the votes of nearly half those who voted and still only have a majority in parliament through an understanding with the Green Party; in the UK parliament though having a much smaller proportion of the popular vote the Conservatives have an almost untouchable majority in parliament. In the event of independence I suspect that there would be a realignment of the voters with independence favouring Lib Dems, Labour and Conservative voters returning to those parties. Hence Scotland would be back to coalition politics as the norm.

A lot will argue against coalition governments I’m sure, but it’s the norm over here and I am glad of it.
The PR system just seems far more representative to me and the sharing of power means one party can’t get away with the wholesale abuse of it that invariably follows absolute power.

 

[west didsblue]

That’s presuming they’re all working which is more likely closer to 250,00-300,000 somewhere.

It’s still nowhere near enough to bridge the gap.

It’s a lot more complicated than saying England subsidises Scotland. There’s so many factors involved and the economies are so inextricably linked that it’s just stupid to make out that Scotland is a drain on England.

 

[Octavian]

It’s a lot more complicated than saying England subsidises Scotland. There’s so many factors involved and the economies are so inextricably linked that it’s just stupid to make out that Scotland is a drain on England.

That’s true in some respect but the budget given to Scotland is greater than the tax received and you’ve just made a solid argument as to why it will be bad for Scotland economically to go, with their economy so linked to England’s :-)

 

[west didsblue]

That’s true in some respect but the budget given to Scotland is greater than the tax received and you’ve just made a solid argument as to why it will be bad for Scotland economically to go, with their economy so linked to England’s :-)

I am not a supporter of Scottish independence. I believe that as a United Kingdom we are more than the sum of its constituent countries, however I fully understand and respect the recent argument for independence due to the Westminster government making it very clear it doesn’t give a fuck about what Scotland actually wants. Scotland would undoubtedly be worse off in the short term if it left the union but they’re not stupid and have realised that their long term best interests are best served by deciding for themselves how they invest in their country, raise taxes and balance their budget.
It’s not me that wants them to go their own way because I’m sick of them moaning. That’s you.

 

[Octavian]

I am not a supporter of Scottish independence. I believe that as a United Kingdom we are more than the sum of its constituent countries, however I fully understand and respect the recent argument for independence due to the Westminster government making it very clear it doesn’t give a fuck about what Scotland actually wants. Scotland would undoubtedly be worse off in the short term if it left the union but they’re not stupid and have realised that their long term best interests are best served by deciding for themselves how they invest in their country, raise taxes and balance their budget.
It’s not me that wants them to go their own way because I’m sick of them moaning. That’s you.

If you’re referring to Brexit then it was a Uk wide vote and 40% of Scotland voted for it anyway. What was the government supposed to do, ignore the result?

Other than that they’ve given Scotland it’s own Parliament, when we don’t have one, and given them more money percentage wise than we get.

but yeah, I’m happy for them to go and actively want it.

 

[Metal Biker]

If you’re referring to Brexit then it was a Uk wide vote and 40% of Scotland voted for it anyway. What was the government supposed to do, ignore the result?

Other than that they’ve given Scotland it’s own Parliament, when we don’t have one, and given them more money percentage wise than we get.

but yeah, I’m happy for them to go and actively want it.

The argument seems to be that Scotland feels ignored by Westminster, so it should plump for independence.

Yet England, especially north of Watford, is ALSO ignored by Westminster, shouldn't we also plump for independence from Westminster?

This for me is where the argument falls flat, if that is indeed the supposed justification for secession. Every member nation in the Union has expressed problems with Westminster and London being the focal point of the UK, yet instead of calling for electoral reform, fairer representation and equal status working towards a closer union that redistributes the wealth and talents of the four nations, certain members political representatives such as Scotland and Wales have instead expressed a wish to leave the union and act as if England is the centre of the union, when it isn't nor ever intended to be.

Doesn't exactly make those of us in England feel as though we aren't being painted as the "bad guys" in this union, especially when we have the same criticisms about Westminster and London as the rest of the union. We could work together to reform the union, instead the option appears to be that breaking up is the way to go. Then so be it, I just ask that others don't make out that England was the cause of the downfall.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Such as? And I mean in a way that benefits ALL of the union, not one specific country *cough Scotland cough*

Simple. Regional parliaments. 3 in England 3 in the other Union countries. Strip Westminster of power and introduce PR.

 

[Metal Biker]

Simple. Regional parliaments. 3 in England 3 in the other Union countries. Strip Westminster of power and introduce PR.

Great, 100% support that, help us fight for it!

No wait, just abandoning the rest of us is the current order of the day.

 

[Saddleworth2]

You want to leave a union of three other countries because of one section of a City, rather than work together with those other nations to make the union work?

Yeah, I see the difference. You blame the union for not getting what YOU want, when you don't realise that the Government we get is retrospective of the collective all 4 nations within the union. England does not have a Plaid Cymru or SNP equivalent. Our options are mainly Con, Lab and Lib Dem, same as you. You've chosen SNP, Wales PC. The North of England, feeling abandoned and rejected by those in Labour, have placed their vote elsewhere. Add in increasing voter apathy (around 33% of the voting nation) and are you surprised the Tories snuck in?

You've rejected the one party capable of keeping the Tories out of power for one not eligible for those in the rest of the union to vote for, becuase they are a single-issue party; independence for Scotland. We could reposition Westminster for Holyrood and the issues would be the same. Yet you don't seem to realise the problem is in part down to Scotland and Wales's voting habits as well. Tories will always vote Tory; if those who don't vote Tory decide to vote for multiple options what did you think was going to happen?

You have just constructed a great case why Union politics don’t work. excellent. Well done.