The Scottish Politics thread

[Phil1]

It is true; that is the origin of the term "Little Englander".

Those using the term now have it to mean it in a xenophobic stance, but the effect is the same. Its meant to denigrate any and all who hold a close and positive identity to England and the English as something negative. Calling someone who identifies as English as a "little Englander" is Anglophobic.

I meant it being true if Octavian is a little englander or not? (in the context used by West dids)
Anyway, I've no dog in this fight. I'm with a glaswegian girl and have property in Glasgow but just like, England, where I was born and also have property and business interests I don't call either home.
I'm very much against this idea of being overly proud of something that's just a quirk of fate when you're born. Grateful, yes.
I've never been met with anything but warmth though when spending time up there so it always makes me smile when I read on here how much they hate us.
Maybe I'm just a likable chap! Haha!

 

[Metal Biker]

Bollocks. Scotland wants independence from the U.K. you guys are the ones constantly banging on about England. We talk about Westminster. See the difference?

You want to leave a union of three other countries because of one section of a City, rather than work together with those other nations to make the union work?

Yeah, I see the difference. You blame the union for not getting what YOU want, when you don't realise that the Government we get is retrospective of the collective all 4 nations within the union. England does not have a Plaid Cymru or SNP equivalent. Our options are mainly Con, Lab and Lib Dem, same as you. You've chosen SNP, Wales PC. The North of England, feeling abandoned and rejected by those in Labour, have placed their vote elsewhere. Add in increasing voter apathy (around 33% of the voting nation) and are you surprised the Tories snuck in?

You've rejected the one party capable of keeping the Tories out of power for one not eligible for those in the rest of the union to vote for, becuase they are a single-issue party; independence for Scotland. We could reposition Westminster for Holyrood and the issues would be the same. Yet you don't seem to realise the problem is in part down to Scotland and Wales's voting habits as well. Tories will always vote Tory; if those who don't vote Tory decide to vote for multiple options what did you think was going to happen?

 

[Octavian]

Using that idiotic argument you could just as easily say London subsidises every region of England, Scotland, Wales and NI.
Maybe you need to look at why that’s the case and then you might realise that it’s very much down to government policy over the decades to invest in infrastructure disproportionately in London. If there was equivalent investment across the U.K. you wouldn’t be sneering at Scotland for not paying their way as there would be similar opportunities right across the country. But you’re too shortsighted to realise this and see it as England somehow being superior.
There are 800,000 Scots in England which is twice as many as there are English in Scotland so their economic activity contributes to England’s wealth to the detriment of Scotland so funnily enough it makes it look like England is subsidising Scotland whereas there is an equally valid argument that Scottish resource has been exploited by England. It’s the same in every country in the world - the population gravitates to areas where there is the most opportunity and it’s down to government policy that it’s particularly noticeable in the U.K.

London does do that but I’m not bitter towards Londoners and want to fucking break away from the city to form a new state because that would be fucking stupid.

London is so successful because of its financial centre and the government invests more there because of that, rather than it being so because the government invests.

They should have done a fast route from Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds but the Tories being cunts haven’t done it have they… one of the many reasons I hope they lose but it isn’t going to make my life any better if we cut off London’s finances. Something you readily overlook because hating the Tories is your only thought.

Those Scots are welcome but to suggest they’re the reason England is a much bigger economy when there’s 20-25 million workers in England is nonsense and you know it.

 

[Metal Biker]

I meant it being true if Octavian is a little englander or not? (in the context used by West dids)
Anyway, I've no dog in this fight. I'm with a glaswegian girl and have property in Glasgow but just like, England, where I was born and also have property and business interests I don't call either home.
I'm very much against this idea of being overly proud of something that's just a quirk of fate when you're born. Grateful, yes.
I've never been met with anything but warmth though when spending time up there so it always makes me smile when I read on here how much they hate us.
Maybe I'm just a likable chap! Haha!

Many people in England are frustrated that a lot of politics surrounding England are dominated by Londoncentric issues. So long as our 'friends' in the rest of the union make the issue solely about how badly they feel they've been mistreated, the same southern English Tory voters will continue to see their political representatives gain positions in the HoC. It's a numbers game and the entire nation is splintered top to bottom because each part of the union feels hard done by.

Northern England is often forgotten and lumped in with the rest of the Londoncentric lobbies, but in order to get the Tories out, we needed those in Scotland and Wales (as N.Ireland rarely voted Lab or Con) in order to vote similarly to us, but they've chosen to go their own way in recent years. What are the rest of us to do? Now it's all England's fault the Tories are in power?!? The 'union' wants the Tories out, but doesn't want Labour in. In that scenario, what do you replace the Tories with?

 

[Saddleworth2]

The amount of online comments I see claiming Scotland is being held captive and oppressed by England is depressing

Can’t comment. Don’t know what your online habits are.

The general narrative is how tough you’ve got it up there but it couldn’t be further from the truth.

Again, where are you getting this from, you seem unable to be specific. There is a great deal of unhappiness about the Tory government and Brexit in particular but that is hardly surprising given we didn’t vote for either.

We have it the worst in northern England and so do some in Wales.

Quantify what you mean. If you mean for example that Scotland is better at reducing child poverty then that is true. That reflects our governments priorities. Can you be specific?

Then the constant moaning about the Tory government when Scotland’s voting helps put them there.

Scotland doesn’t vote for the Tories. Are you suggesting it should ( unlike England) vote for Labour? what fucking deluded nonsense is this?

The anti Tory thing is big part of it but let’s not pretend that a Labour victory means Sturgeon and her army pack their bags and go away. They still win the Scottish elections.

So as a Labour voter you are criticising Scots for criticising Tories. Ok.

it’s all pretty weak really isn’t it?
1. Scots dont hate the English
2. we would like the chance to run our own country, for better or worse.
3. we really would like to stay close neighbours and good friends with England, Wales, Ireland (N and S) and the EU

why should that create such a problem for you?

 

[west didsblue]

London does do that but I’m not bitter towards Londoners and want to fucking break away from the city to form a new state because that would be fucking stupid.

London is so successful because of its financial centre and the government invests more there because of that, rather than it being so because the government invests.

They should have done a fast route from Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds but the Tories being cunts haven’t done it have they… one of the many reasons I hope they lose but it isn’t going to make my life any better if we cut off London’s finances. Something you readily overlook because hating the Tories is your only thought.

Those Scots are welcome but to suggest they’re the reason England is a much bigger economy when there’s 20-25 million workers in England is nonsense and you know it.

It is a reason why Scotland’s economy is smaller than it could be without making a significant difference to England’s. A net migration of 400,000 to England is about 7% of Scotland’s population and hence GDP lost whereas it’s less than 1% that England gains.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Many people in England are frustrated that a lot of politics surrounding England are dominated by Londoncentric issues. So long as our 'friends' in the rest of the union make the issue solely about how badly they feel they've been mistreated, the same southern English Tory voters will continue to see their political representatives gain positions in the HoC. It's a numbers game and the entire nation is splintered top to bottom because each part of the union feels hard done by.

Northern England is often forgotten and lumped in with the rest of the Londoncentric lobbies, but in order to get the Tories out, we needed those in Scotland and Wales (as N.Ireland rarely voted Lab or Con) in order to vote similarly to us, but they've chosen to go their own way in recent years. What are the rest of us to do? Now it's all England's fault the Tories are in power?!? The 'union' wants the Tories out, but doesn't want Labour in. In that scenario, what do you replace the Tories with?

You don’t. You dissolve the Union or redraw politics in the U.K.

 

[Cassandra]

Question to the Scots in here, as I’m genuinely interested. Fascinated, you might say.
Supposing you do go for independence, in the aftermath, what are your political options beyond the SNP. Is there a genuine opposition as an alternative.

The short answer to your question is no, but then I don't see much opposition to the Conservatives in the UK/English parliament. There is a difference - in Scotland because of a voting system that causes the make up of the parliament to be a better match for the votes received, the SNP do have the votes of nearly half those who voted and still only have a majority in parliament through an understanding with the Green Party; in the UK parliament though having a much smaller proportion of the popular vote the Conservatives have an almost untouchable majority in parliament. In the event of independence I suspect that there would be a realignment of the voters with independence favouring Lib Dems, Labour and Conservative voters returning to those parties. Hence Scotland would be back to coalition politics as the norm.

 

[Octavian]

Can’t comment. Don’t know what your online habits are.

Again, where are you getting this from, you seem unable to be specific. There is a great deal of unhappiness about the Tory government and Brexit in particular but that is hardly surprising given we didn’t vote for either.

Quantify what you mean. If you mean for example that Scotland is better at reducing child poverty then that is true. That reflects our governments priorities. Can you be specific?

Scotland doesn’t vote for the Tories. Are you suggesting it should ( unlike England) vote for Labour? what fucking deluded nonsense is this?

So as a Labour voter you are criticising Scots for criticising Tories. Ok.

it’s all pretty weak really isn’t it?
1. Scots dont hate the English
2. we would like the chance to run our own country, for better or worse.
3. we really would like to stay close neighbours and good friends with England, Wales, Ireland (N and S) and the EU

why should that create such a problem for you?

You’ve misunderstood where I am, I’m perfectly happy and actively want you to go your own way. Please do.

Scotland gets more money per head of population to spend and has a designated parliament to sort local issues in Scotland.

If you had the same in the north of England and upped the budget we get then child poverty would reduce more here too.

My point on voting is that it isn’t just about the Tories is it, if Scotland voted Labour then there would be a real chance next time the Tories will lose. Ironically Labour were the only unionist party who agreed to another Scot independent vote

 

[Metal Biker]

You don’t. You dissolve the Union or redraw politics in the U.K.

Such as? And I mean in a way that benefits ALL of the union, not one specific country *cough Scotland cough*