The Scottish Politics thread

Saddleworth2 said:
Hope you do mate. I’m simply saying both paths have serious risks attached and the status quo is not a comfort blanket.
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This is a quite common mindset, that many applying brexit arguements just can't seem to fathom.

It is no longer a discussion of sailing out for sunny uplands or not, but more whether to make the desperate jump overboard or sink.
 
Coatigan said:
This is a quite common mindset, that many applying brexit arguements just can't seem to fathom.

It is no longer a discussion of sailing out for sunny uplands or not, but more whether to make the desperate jump overboard or sink.
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Its been coming a long while and I do feel like the boiled frog that has woken up just at the point where the temperature gets lethal.

Now Starmer says he has no interest in rejoining even the single market I completely despair of any leader of the mainstream putting the needs of the country before the ambition of their party. And to tell us we needed to recruit more home grown doctors or nurses, well.....

I genuinely think that the leap overboard is less scary than the status quo. The biggest risk is the competence of the SNP to deliver this. As long as they can surround themselves with the right experts (financial and planning) they should make a fist of it. There will undoubtedly be bumps in the road but bloody hell we are getting very used to them being imposed on us. Once independent, the SNP will need to take their chances with the other parties that want to make a contribution.

I want us to be a friendly, open country, part of the EU with a set of values that reward hard work and wealth creation but at the same time look after those that need help. I want us to open our borders to migrants so they can make a contribution to our economy. I want us to continue to lead Europe in the development of green energy and not see the benefits of that pissed against the wall like our oil was. I think its possible if we are determined enough to make the leap.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Its been coming a long while and I do feel like the boiled frog that has woken up just at the point where the temperature gets lethal.

Now Starmer says he has no interest in rejoining even the single market I completely despair of any leader of the mainstream putting the needs of the country before the ambition of their party. And to tell us we needed to recruit more home grown doctors or nurses, well.....

I genuinely think that the leap overboard is less scary than the status quo. The biggest risk is the competence of the SNP to deliver this. As long as they can surround themselves with the right experts (financial and planning) they should make a fist of it. There will undoubtedly be bumps in the road but bloody hell we are getting very used to them being imposed on us. Once independent, the SNP will need to take their chances with the other parties that want to make a contribution.

I want us to be a friendly, open country, part of the EU with a set of values that reward hard work and wealth creation but at the same time look after those that need help. I want us to open our borders to migrants so they can make a contribution to our economy. I want us to continue to lead Europe in the development of green energy and not see the benefits of that pissed against the wall like our oil was. I think its possible if we are determined enough to make the leap.
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Whilst as an Englishman with Irish blood and a Scottish wife I really don't want to the UK to break up, I think I'd feel this way if I was Scottish. If it wasn't for kids, family and City I'd seriously consider emigrating because I'm ashamed of this country and frightened for the future.
 
Coatigan said:
I've removed the first parts because that is your take, that I get, and it is as valid as any.

The last part however, is anything between not right, and a partial oversimplification, to prove a very basic point.

I'm not picking it out to bicker, to point score, or to defend or promote any party, in particular not the snp. But purely for a more complete look voting demographic and patterns.

The 'independence vote' is also split 3 ways. Or at least 2 ways, if we discount the newly formed joker party. And it outnumbers the unionist vote, once you take in the regional votes too. Which is why they have a majority in parliament. Everyone seems to completely ignore 220,000+ votes for the Greens, which is close to double the lib dem votes.

However I really think it is a miatake to try translate party votes into portraying independence/unionist summaries. By either side.

I've seen a study saying most of the green votes are by those voting labour at constituency. There are both labour and lin-dem voters thatbwant independence. And there is also a not insignificant number voting SNP that aren't up for independence. Despite obviously their core support being the indy-hopefuls. Which is why they have won 11 elections in a row now, without ever having enough support for independence to actually secure it. And it is something they know fine well, which is why they continue to play that game of dangle but don't grab.
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I do agree with you entirely that someone’s voting intention for parliament doesn’t necessarily indicate how they will vote in a referendum. Although you’d naturally expect the SNP vote to be pretty certain to vote for independence. However to your comment on green vote I’ll take some “issue”

Green total votes - 255,314
Lib Dems total votes - 324,898

Where it is correct is in the regional votes for Scottish Parliament where the votes were:

Greens 220,324
Lib Dems 137,152

But that’s somewhat cherry picking as in the constituent votes it was

Greens 34,990
Lob dems 187,746

If we look at total votes cast in both regional and constituency for SNP, SLP and Greens we get 2,686,012

If we look at the same for “others” total votes cast 2,736,455.

1.5m people who could vote, didn’t - so little can be concluded - you’d expect a bigger turnout on a referendum vote as we saw in the 2014 one.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Whilst as an Englishman with Irish blood and a Scottish wife I really don't want to the UK to break up, I think I'd feel this way if I was Scottish. If it wasn't for kids, family and City I'd seriously consider emigrating because I'm ashamed of this country and frightened for the future.
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Me too mate. Mrs S forebears are all from Ireland. Unfortunately that was her great grandparents and back. She missed an Irish passport by a generation. Had she got one, we would seriously consider it.
 
metalblue said:
However to your comment on green vote I’ll take some “issue”
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Is that really all you took from that to focus on? I was talking specifically about reginal votes, and said so, because are the ones often getting ignored.

Either way, I have said I don't believe there is enough of a real appetite for independence. Not based on the numbers, which I maintain aren't a meaningful gage. Purely based on my own experience and observation.
 
metalblue said:
Hypothetical question for our Scottish residents. If next UK GE we get to a position of SNP holding balance of power would you prefer the SNP to make a condition of their support for a Labour government:

1. A Scottish independence referendum
Or
2. A new Brexit referendum
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Interesting question. Total hypothetical, but genuinely have to think about that.

Given I don't want another independence referendum (while I do recognise the situation and mandate for one), should really be 2. But not sure I would trust it enough, or labour enough. Plus might be beyond salvaging.

Not convinced either way, and too much of a hypothetical to really put thought into.

But kudos on the question, I mean it.

edit, what about you?
 
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