The Scottish Politics thread

metalblue said:
Hypothetical question for our Scottish residents. If next UK GE we get to a position of SNP holding balance of power would you prefer the SNP to make a condition of their support for a Labour government:

1. A Scottish independence referendum
Or
2. A new Brexit referendum
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If everything they’ve said has been true, it would be option 2. However, as the whole reason for their being is independence, sadly, it would be option 1…..
 
Coatigan said:
Think what may well swing it is those voting out of defeatism and despair at the situation and where it is going.

Which, if it comes to pass, what a sad contrast to 2014 that at least had some possibly misplaced crazy hopefulness and flung optimism to it. Right or wrong (probably more wrong than right) there was at least a high level of positivity.

Now, there is a mood of cold hard realisation, will be a damn hard salvage what you can, but the alternative could be even bleaker. Thanks Brexit.

If only we could have forseen it coming in back then. Oh wait, we totally could have, it was already on the agenda, we just chose not to. I know I did.

That's the thing people will point to, for anyone voting on more emotional than logical grounds, is it worth the risk, etc. And they'd have a point. But who really wants to be looking back in 8-10 years again and thinking, if only we could have forseen it. Twice!
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I even encouraged my kids to vote no on the basis it would keep us in Europe. (That and I wasn’t convinced by the detail of the independence plan).

Naive in the extreme, I truly couldn‘t comprehend a majority voting in the face of facts, expert opinion and just sheer logic. That will teach me.
I still think Scots being Scots will need a reasonable picture of ‘what‘ and ‘how‘ that brings independence to life. If there is another referendum, the outcome will be respected. If Scots vote no again then frankly we deserve whatever the future brings.
 
metalblue said:
Headlines would cover full range from “Genius” to “Treason”. No prizes for guessing who would have Sturgeon up on charges of treason
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Doubt it would even make the news. Yesterday’s judgement only made it to the front pages of the Metro and the Times, respectively, which rather shows where Scotland ranks in the eyes of the English press.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I still think Scots being Scots will need a reasonable picture of ‘what‘ and ‘how‘ that brings independence to life.
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Not so sure about that. Not any more, not for many. Immediately after Brexit, yes of course. Now, not any more.
Try as the No camp may this time to focus on details and create a fear, there will be those that just don't need to care. And those that have very little to fear too.

Saddleworth2 said:
If there is another referendum, the outcome will be respected. If Scots vote no again then frankly we deserve whatever the future brings.
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Absolutely. I think at that point, we all just have to say, that's enough now, lets hear no more on it. Even if you really really want it, vote in parties that don't don't offer it up again for a good long while. And that means the SNP have to bench it off their agenda to remain in government, or prepare to be in rainbow coalitions.

And we could have been there. Were it not for Brexit.

And yea I know some cliched 'wee jimmy'-labling snp-is-ukip claiming numpty is already typing out 'within 24 hours they were calling for another', they'd be wrong, without Brexit the push for independence would have subsided.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Sorry I got shouty last night. It wasn't aimed at you. I sometimes let politics wind me up too much. I should be better at my age :-)
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A Scottish referendum has nothing to do with me so I shouldn’t get wound up either, yet I found catching up on the sudden increase in pages last night quite depressing, regarding some of the views from people I would regard as not having a say in it either.

That in itself is not down to me not understanding how the UK works or how the individual citizens of the component countries think, but that demonstration of a prevalent view from some quarters reminds me why Irish participation in such a union was always doomed.
It’s not how we think. And being told by London that that’s how it would be, was never going to work.

I won’t derail the thread with the several other Irish issues that run through history, but me being depressed on behalf of the Scots? Does that make me ‘woke’.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Its been coming a long while and I do feel like the boiled frog that has woken up just at the point where the temperature gets lethal.

Now Starmer says he has no interest in rejoining even the single market I completely despair of any leader of the mainstream putting the needs of the country before the ambition of their party. And to tell us we needed to recruit more home grown doctors or nurses, well.....

I genuinely think that the leap overboard is less scary than the status quo. The biggest risk is the competence of the SNP to deliver this. As long as they can surround themselves with the right experts (financial and planning) they should make a fist of it. There will undoubtedly be bumps in the road but bloody hell we are getting very used to them being imposed on us. Once independent, the SNP will need to take their chances with the other parties that want to make a contribution.

I want us to be a friendly, open country, part of the EU with a set of values that reward hard work and wealth creation but at the same time look after those that need help. I want us to open our borders to migrants so they can make a contribution to our economy. I want us to continue to lead Europe in the development of green energy and not see the benefits of that pissed against the wall like our oil was. I think its possible if we are determined enough to make the leap.
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I have the same fear of a Sinn Fein lead government both north and south of the border and an even bigger fear of a United Ireland should it ever materialise. How could we ever afford it, but could I see myself voting against it?
That’s a difficult one.

I don’t see how Scotland could be more impoverished than The Repubic was back in the 1920’s. You would be in a far better place. We hadn’t a pot to piss in, which is one reason the educational system was handed over to the clergy.

Regarding currency. We stayed with Sterling parity for well over half a century before going with the Punt firstly and then adopting the Euro.
 
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