The Scottish Politics thread

[Churchlawtonblue]

Still on that old bandwagon,Well if she got independence she wouldn’t be on the same money as the regions.Though with covid out of date now the sustainable growth commision report gives a clear idea of how they see the economy long term. Whether you agree with it or not, and the SNP disagree with parts of it, it’s at least laid out there for all to see.
The point isn’t why they are popular still, it’s the fact they are governing with policies on health, welfare ,social care, education, the whole lot, something Farage and hibp never had.
In fact farage ‘s plan for brexit was to scare the tories into a referendum based on fear of losing votes and seats nothing more.
The SNP set out right at the start of devolution when the fear was Labour majorities for ever, hence the system was set up to prevent that.They knew the only way to independece was governing, they knew the only way to govern was to convince Scots that didn’t support independence they wee fit to govern, and then persuade on independence .
They couldn't be a one policy party, they needed to be a proper party. They have succeded in that, they hadn’t succeeded in convincing Scotland to back independence. They needed Brexit and Johnson to finally push that argument into possibility.

Sorry i appear to be banging on about disparity in expenditure. Fairness in something i'm quite keen on in society. Obviously its not as important to some if they have the largest slice of the pie in the first place.

 

[blueparrot]

Sorry i appear to be banging on about disparity in expenditure. Fairness in something i'm quite keen on in society. Obviously its not as important to some if they have the largest slice of the pie in the first place.

Disparity in expenditure and fairnes are different things and nothing to do with each other. Expenditure should be directed where need iswhatever the disparity with other parts of the country, that’s fair. If that is Scotland then that’s the decision taken,
if you think other regions don’t get their fair share and deserve equal comparison with Scotland then maybe those regions need devolved government to fight their corner, I ‘d agree and support that.
The argument the north west or any other region don’t get a fair deal so Scotland, N.Ireland or Wales shouldn’t is churlish, level up not down.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Disparity in expenditure and fairnes are different things and nothing to do with each other. Expenditure should be directed where need iswhatever the disparity with other parts of the country, that’s fair. If that is Scotland then that’s the decision taken,
if you think other regions don’t get their fair share and deserve equal comparison with Scotland then maybe those regions need devolved government to fight their corner, I ‘d agree and support that.
The argument the north west or any other region don’t get a fair deal so Scotland, N.Ireland or Wales shouldn’t is churlish, level up not down.

I think somewhere previously in this thread somebody did post a regional breakdown of GDP income and expenditure per head of population on a region by region basis. I'll try to find as it's a handy tool for such a comparison.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Disparity in expenditure and fairnes are different things and nothing to do with each other. Expenditure should be directed where need iswhatever the disparity with other parts of the country, that’s fair. If that is Scotland then that’s the decision taken,
if you think other regions don’t get their fair share and deserve equal comparison with Scotland then maybe those regions need devolved government to fight their corner, I ‘d agree and support that.
The argument the north west or any other region don’t get a fair deal so Scotland, N.Ireland or Wales shouldn’t is churlish, level up not down.

If you only have £10 and one person gets £6 and other £4 you cant even things up by just giving each person £6. This seems to be what you are bizarrely suggesting? Its not devolution that's the issue, its the differing amount of money per person that different regions of the UK get given.

 

[blueparrot]

If you only have £10 and one person gets £6 and other £4 you cant even things up by just giving each person £6. This seems to be what you are bizarrely suggesting? Its not devolution that's the issue, its the differing amount of money per person that different regions of the UK get given.

Thats a polar example we are talking about multiple regions, some redistributing from richer regions to poorer wouldn’t mean redistribution from poorer to other poorer.
Well it shouldn’t under Johnsons tories it could well do, they seem to think the less well off should pay for covid losses. Which is why we want rid.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yep, seems I was wrong - thanks for putting me right. Apologies - it seems my inability to consider any view but my own has led to me adopting a position of ignorance based upon an empty rather than an open mind.

Huffy!
Both of you have sound points. I agree with you that the SNP record in government could be better than it is. But you can say that about any government? Your comparison with Farage is way off though mate. The SNP have proven they can govern and although their election results are at least as much down to the opposition as their own magnificence, you can only beat what is put in front of you and they have resoundingly done that. They aren't a one trick pony but I would like them to have a more strategic view than they have demonstrated so far. Not enough joined up integrated thinking. Their opposition however has been woeful in the extreme.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think somewhere previously in this thread somebody did post a regional breakdown of GDP income and expenditure per head of population on a region by region basis. I'll try to find as it's a handy tool for such a comparison.

Its widely available. It shows London and the SE and East in surplus, every other region is deficit.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Its widely available. It shows London and the SE and East in surplus, every other region is deficit.

View attachment 6004

Yep, but tbf it spreads the North Sea oil revenues around the entire UK. They are currently between 2-3% of GDP so I'd imagine if that revenue in its entirety was applied to the Scotland 'region' only then the bar chart above would look a lot different. I'll admit mathematical defeat as far as working out if it would be enough to make an indy Scotlands finances go into the black rather than the red.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Thats a polar example we are talking about multiple regions, some redistributing from richer regions to poorer wouldn’t mean redistribution from poorer to other poorer.
Well it shouldn’t under Johnsons tories it could well do, they seem to think the less well off should pay for covid losses. Which is why we want rid.

Just fundemental economic fairness in my book. to try and justify anything else is frankly just the politics of greed.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Yep, but tbf it spreads the North Sea oil revenues around the entire UK. They are currently between 2-3% of GDP so I'd imagine if that revenue in its entirety was applied to the Scotland 'region' only then the bar chart above would look a lot different. I'll admit mathematical defeat as far as working out if it would be enough to make an indy Scotlands finances go into the black rather than the red.

With the oil price as it is today certainly not. These figures are from th3 last published in 2018. Tbf, the recent thinking excludes oil from the equation and shows a large annual defecit for some time to come. Scotland needs to attract immigrants, from England, from the EU to support agriculture tourism and start new businesses. It has to turn round what is a shrinking population and attract new revenue generators. That is it’s biggest challenge and frankly one that the Scottish government should be addressing now, particularly in the recovery from Pandemic.