Mr Ed (The Stables)
Well-Known Member
moomba said:
Not too many worse than Boyata he's aweful.
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The Squad Depth Myth
- Thread starter Blankomania
- Start date
Not too many worse than Boyata he's aweful.
Choosing our competitors midfield to compare to ours isn't right, if you stick to Strikers rather than midfielders, we shit on all of your mentioned teams (arsenal/chelski).
Comparing squads is exactly that, not comparing one particular position.
Comparing squads is exactly that, not comparing one particular position.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Kun Aguero said:City
Pantillimon
Clichy Lescott Demichelis Richards
Milner Rodwell Garcia Navas
Dzeko Jovetic
Arsenal
Vivano
Monreal Theinvisibleman Vermaelen Jenkinson
Wilshire Flamini
Ramsey Rosicky Podolski
Bendtner
We shit all over Arsenal. Chelsea have a stronger squad than us though.
We'd have to play with 8 men and we would therefore get battered. How the fuck are Richards, Rodwell and Jovetic going to take part? Or is this a Subutteo challenge?
oppa gangnam style
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 226
Ours is the best squad in the PL. For me that is not in question. In terms of league position tha means for me we should win the league, but as things stand we have about 33% chance, or little bit more. It's either us or Chelsea or Arsenal clearly.
Also if we wont be first thats down to the manager. As its his first season vs managers that know PL inside-out, it could be accepted that he doesnt win it if he does a great CL run, or wins an FA-Cup or something like this.
But back to the squad.
Yeah the starting team gives the most of the strength of the squad, but its the same for every team. Also it has to be said that we spent sometimes more on our fringe/squad/sub payers than some of our rivals spent on some of their starters...
Liverpool's squad's strength is 50% based on Suarez. Top top players mean a lot, just ask Harry Redknapp.:)
We have the most top players, Kompany, Silva, Yaya, Agüero, Zabaleta, Fernandinho. And if they are in good form they are top players too, like Nasri, Hart, Negredo...
The manager getting the most out of his squad also means a lot, I think Wenger this seasn is very close to getting the best out of Arsenal. I think they couldnt be lot better than they are now with the current players.
For us, Pellegrini is doing well, improving our style, pace etc, but our defending can be horrible at times, and will be punished many times, in CL especially, we leave huge paces sometimes, and some of our defenders are not up to this.
If Pellegrini could get out the most of this squad (really strong defence, midfield and attack together) we would be up there with Barca, Bayern. Right now we arent, we have problems yet but going in the right directions also some changes has to be made upgrading on certain players.
Doing it domestically and also making great CL runs (semifinals, or finals maybe), thats a big thing and really hard. We are still far from that, but maybe not that far. Getting closer.
But the current squad should be enough to win the title. Especially with the summer signings. We needed them certainly with players like Balo, Tevez, Barry leaving, also had no wide options now we have Navas.
Chelsea's squad is also great, but they have to learn a lot, a lot of youger players there, but replacing some older is a must for them, also big striker problem. Torres is only good vs City basically, and Eto is good can score some goals but he wont score 30 goals in a season anymore. Imagine them with Suarez. They would win the league easily.
But this best squad think also comes from a financial aspect, we have the highest wage bill in the league, maybe the 3rd-4th highest in the world, also the cost of the squad is very high up the list.
At once its easy with a squad like this, but also its extremely hard to manage a big squad with lot of stars, rotation, keeping them happy and also huge pressure to win trophies.
Also if we wont be first thats down to the manager. As its his first season vs managers that know PL inside-out, it could be accepted that he doesnt win it if he does a great CL run, or wins an FA-Cup or something like this.
But back to the squad.
Yeah the starting team gives the most of the strength of the squad, but its the same for every team. Also it has to be said that we spent sometimes more on our fringe/squad/sub payers than some of our rivals spent on some of their starters...
Liverpool's squad's strength is 50% based on Suarez. Top top players mean a lot, just ask Harry Redknapp.:)
We have the most top players, Kompany, Silva, Yaya, Agüero, Zabaleta, Fernandinho. And if they are in good form they are top players too, like Nasri, Hart, Negredo...
The manager getting the most out of his squad also means a lot, I think Wenger this seasn is very close to getting the best out of Arsenal. I think they couldnt be lot better than they are now with the current players.
For us, Pellegrini is doing well, improving our style, pace etc, but our defending can be horrible at times, and will be punished many times, in CL especially, we leave huge paces sometimes, and some of our defenders are not up to this.
If Pellegrini could get out the most of this squad (really strong defence, midfield and attack together) we would be up there with Barca, Bayern. Right now we arent, we have problems yet but going in the right directions also some changes has to be made upgrading on certain players.
Doing it domestically and also making great CL runs (semifinals, or finals maybe), thats a big thing and really hard. We are still far from that, but maybe not that far. Getting closer.
But the current squad should be enough to win the title. Especially with the summer signings. We needed them certainly with players like Balo, Tevez, Barry leaving, also had no wide options now we have Navas.
Chelsea's squad is also great, but they have to learn a lot, a lot of youger players there, but replacing some older is a must for them, also big striker problem. Torres is only good vs City basically, and Eto is good can score some goals but he wont score 30 goals in a season anymore. Imagine them with Suarez. They would win the league easily.
But this best squad think also comes from a financial aspect, we have the highest wage bill in the league, maybe the 3rd-4th highest in the world, also the cost of the squad is very high up the list.
At once its easy with a squad like this, but also its extremely hard to manage a big squad with lot of stars, rotation, keeping them happy and also huge pressure to win trophies.
birchwoodgingerste
Well-Known Member
Mr Ed (The Stables) said:moomba said:We've had it worse.
Not too many worse than Boyata he's aweful.
to be fair he was awfull today but playing a centre back at right back is asking for trouble hes a good centre back thats it.
There is an issue with our defence
it seems to me that various possibilities are that.......
a) we lack strength in depth in this area of the squad
b) that the way that the whole club is set up emphasises attack over defence ("you score 4 , we'll score more") i.e.
c) that MP has not got his DMs clearly briefed in what their respective roles should be
d) that MP makes occasionally inexplicable team sheet choices (e.g. Boyota at RB, which is clearly a 'mare position for him)
Still happy overall , BTW , but if we want to win trophies, this needs sorting....
it seems to me that various possibilities are that.......
a) we lack strength in depth in this area of the squad
b) that the way that the whole club is set up emphasises attack over defence ("you score 4 , we'll score more") i.e.
c) that MP has not got his DMs clearly briefed in what their respective roles should be
d) that MP makes occasionally inexplicable team sheet choices (e.g. Boyota at RB, which is clearly a 'mare position for him)
Still happy overall , BTW , but if we want to win trophies, this needs sorting....
mancity111
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 1,423
NoahCity said:Agreed, I say that over the next two windows, I would like to see an AM/winger added, a DM (similar to Fernandinho hopefully) and a class CB. That represents the minimum for me, other moves I can see are perhaps us adding 2 players in central midfield instead of just 1 (after all, neither Rodwell or Garcia are decent so we might need to replace both) and back ups brought in in at the fullback positions as Richards is unreliable atm and Clichy has regressed (the FB is least urgent as Richards may yet overcome his injuries and Clichy is still decent and may rediscover his form).
Again we will add 4 or 5 players over the summer but its important we add in he right areas.
Its important you have the right quality and cover in the right areas and at present we are a bit short in a couple of areas.
We need to see some youth starting to make an impact from Viera's and his support team as well.
For the hear and now we will have to make do with what we have and hope some of the injured players get some meaningful game time and play to the level they are capable of.
Arsenal and Chelsea won't go away and Liverpool have few distractions with decent players to return.
As MP said 6 or 7 teams are in the hunt for 4 places.
kun
Well-Known Member
Pants
Richards Demichelis Lescott Clichy
Garcia Rodwell
Navas Jovetic Milner
Dzeko
Fabianski
Jenkinson *NO-ONE* Vermaelen Monreal
Arteta Flamini
Ox-Chamberlain Rosicky Podolski
Bendtner
Schwarzer
Azpilicueta Luiz Kalas Bertrand
Essien Mikel
de Bruyne Mata Schurrle
Torres
Jones
Kelly Kolo Agger Cissokho
Sterling Allen *NO-ONE*
Alberto Aspas Moses
Friedel
Naughton Chiriches Kaboul Fryers
Capoue Paulinho
Lamela Holtby Sigurdsson
Defoe
Lindegaard
Smalling Ferdinand Jones Buttner
Nani Cleverley Anderson Young
Kagawa
Welbeck
I'd say ours is as good as any
Richards Demichelis Lescott Clichy
Garcia Rodwell
Navas Jovetic Milner
Dzeko
Fabianski
Jenkinson *NO-ONE* Vermaelen Monreal
Arteta Flamini
Ox-Chamberlain Rosicky Podolski
Bendtner
Schwarzer
Azpilicueta Luiz Kalas Bertrand
Essien Mikel
de Bruyne Mata Schurrle
Torres
Jones
Kelly Kolo Agger Cissokho
Sterling Allen *NO-ONE*
Alberto Aspas Moses
Friedel
Naughton Chiriches Kaboul Fryers
Capoue Paulinho
Lamela Holtby Sigurdsson
Defoe
Lindegaard
Smalling Ferdinand Jones Buttner
Nani Cleverley Anderson Young
Kagawa
Welbeck
I'd say ours is as good as any
Blankomania said:I wish someone would tell the media and the pundits to stop pedalling the myth that we have the best squad deoth in the premier league. This is our second choice midfield:
Navas Garcia Rodwell Milner
Compare this to chelsea:
schurle mikel mata luiz de bruyne
arsenal:
Gnabry rosicky arteta cazorla
tottenham:
lamela capoue sandro holtby towsend
Apart from navas our midfield back ups don't come close
Milner is brilliant. What the fuck.
Not bad, the only problem there is I would play Yaya/Fernandinho alongside Rodwell because Garcia doesn't cut it. The only problem with this lineup is Jovetic, Rodwell and Richards are never fit!kun said:Pants
Richards Demichelis Lescott Clichy
Garcia Rodwell
Navas Jovetic Milner
Dzeko
Fabianski
Jenkinson *NO-ONE* Vermaelen Monreal
Arteta Flamini
Ox-Chamberlain Rosicky Podolski
Bendtner
Schwarzer
Azpilicueta Luiz Kalas Bertrand
Essien Mikel
de Bruyne Mata Schurrle
Torres
Jones
Kelly Kolo Agger Cissokho
Sterling Allen *NO-ONE*
Alberto Aspas Moses
Friedel
Naughton Chiriches Kaboul Fryers
Capoue Paulinho
Lamela Holtby Sigurdsson
Defoe
Lindegaard
Smalling Ferdinand Jones Buttner
Nani Cleverley Anderson Young
Kagawa
Welbeck
I'd say ours is as good as any
nice neil
Well-Known Member
To me, where we were lacking most against Blackburn was the poor quality of service into the box when we'd worked ourselves into good positions. Without Navas and Kolarov, the quality of cross just isn't there.
ManCitizens.
Well-Known Member
The majority of our second team are happy to keep playing the simple sideways pass and pass the problem onto someone else. We can get away with one or two coming in but when they all play together we don't create many chances.
Millwallawayveteran1988
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Sep 2010
- Messages
- 42,326
NoahCity said:Not bad, the only problem there is I would play Yaya/Fernandinho alongside Rodwell because Garcia doesn't cut it. The only problem with this lineup is Jovetic, Rodwell and Richards are never fit!kun said:Pants
Richards Demichelis Lescott Clichy
Garcia Rodwell
Navas Jovetic Milner
Dzeko
Fabianski
Jenkinson *NO-ONE* Vermaelen Monreal
Arteta Flamini
Ox-Chamberlain Rosicky Podolski
Bendtner
Schwarzer
Azpilicueta Luiz Kalas Bertrand
Essien Mikel
de Bruyne Mata Schurrle
Torres
Jones
Kelly Kolo Agger Cissokho
Sterling Allen *NO-ONE*
Alberto Aspas Moses
Friedel
Naughton Chiriches Kaboul Fryers
Capoue Paulinho
Lamela Holtby Sigurdsson
Defoe
Lindegaard
Smalling Ferdinand Jones Buttner
Nani Cleverley Anderson Young
Kagawa
Welbeck
I'd say ours is as good as any
Exactly and that is the problem! Add Guidetti to the list of players never fit and we have almost half a team of crocks.
uwe rosler 28
Well-Known Member
Think we need to strenghen in the midfield and up front and 1 defender in the summer for me lescott garcia rodwell dzeko and jovetic need replacing and we have to make pogba 1 of them replacements.
Richards, Guidetti, Rodwell and Jovetic a black hole in our squad, from which no light escapes?
Yet all 3 we are led to believe are not seriously injured (hamstring, and knee I think) so perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel, but all 3 players have been at this stage throughout this season hence the scepticism. All teams have injuries, but of the top sides, I can think of only Utd with Fletcher and RVP who have comparable problems.
The midfield needs one or two more players and it's a pity no one has stepped up from the academy.
One mistake that Pellegrini has made as manager is in not bringing through any young players into the squad. All the Cups gave opportunities, and the thing about young players is that they are hungry - that was what was missing at Blackburn. Some of the players are not hungry. Arsenal's players are hungry because they have won nothing and they are being questioned all the time. They have a point to prove. We could get an instant response by bringing through one or two young players. Ready or not they would do better than a senior player coasting in 2nd gear.
When I see games like Blackburn away I am reminded of last season when we had Mancini on one side, a manager bristling with anger and determination, and a seemingly carefree squad free-wheeling through the season. Pellegrini was appointed because Mancini had lost the dressing room, but maybe the dressing room has an inherent fault? They've been there and done it. The League Cup semi-final and FA Cup replay will answer these questions - one way to solve it would be to put one or two kids on the bench. Pellegrini's only excuse for not doing so may be that the potential young players were injured at the time of the Cup games
Yet all 3 we are led to believe are not seriously injured (hamstring, and knee I think) so perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel, but all 3 players have been at this stage throughout this season hence the scepticism. All teams have injuries, but of the top sides, I can think of only Utd with Fletcher and RVP who have comparable problems.
The midfield needs one or two more players and it's a pity no one has stepped up from the academy.
One mistake that Pellegrini has made as manager is in not bringing through any young players into the squad. All the Cups gave opportunities, and the thing about young players is that they are hungry - that was what was missing at Blackburn. Some of the players are not hungry. Arsenal's players are hungry because they have won nothing and they are being questioned all the time. They have a point to prove. We could get an instant response by bringing through one or two young players. Ready or not they would do better than a senior player coasting in 2nd gear.
When I see games like Blackburn away I am reminded of last season when we had Mancini on one side, a manager bristling with anger and determination, and a seemingly carefree squad free-wheeling through the season. Pellegrini was appointed because Mancini had lost the dressing room, but maybe the dressing room has an inherent fault? They've been there and done it. The League Cup semi-final and FA Cup replay will answer these questions - one way to solve it would be to put one or two kids on the bench. Pellegrini's only excuse for not doing so may be that the potential young players were injured at the time of the Cup games
After the match yesterday,on the coach home,the myth of our squad depth was our main topic.
We desperately need upgrades on Garcia,LESCOTT,boyatta,Dzeko,
Then sort out rodwell,jovetic, enigmas, and maybe it won't be a myth.
I do like the way pellegrini rotates,it's just that the players that form the depth are not as good as we hoped they would be or are not reliable,as pellegrini continues to put faith in them.
Eventually something will bite us on the ARSE,
We desperately need upgrades on Garcia,LESCOTT,boyatta,Dzeko,
Then sort out rodwell,jovetic, enigmas, and maybe it won't be a myth.
I do like the way pellegrini rotates,it's just that the players that form the depth are not as good as we hoped they would be or are not reliable,as pellegrini continues to put faith in them.
Eventually something will bite us on the ARSE,
Pubteam Lomas
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with the above posts. Our 25 man squad is permanently without Rodwell, Jovetic and Richards.
Throw in injuries to Demechellis, Aguero and Nasri (all missing yesterday) and we're struggling with the amount of games we're playing.
Think in the next window squad players will be added and their injury record will be under scrutiny!
Throw in injuries to Demechellis, Aguero and Nasri (all missing yesterday) and we're struggling with the amount of games we're playing.
Think in the next window squad players will be added and their injury record will be under scrutiny!
OB1
Well-Known Member
moomba said:We've had it worse.
That made me smile.
OB1
Well-Known Member
Mentioned this in another thread. You can't have a squad of 22 world class players: you won't find 11 world class players that will settle for being back-ups or 22 that will accept constant rotation... You have to get by with having some back-up players who are simply good (to very good). Like many things in life it is about balance.
The OP referred specifically to midfield and in that area, Arsenal's back-ups are probably closer in quality to their first choice midfield than ours are to one another. However, our first choice midfield is, IMO, easily the best in the league. Exeter Blue has been making the point recently that in some squads, Arsenal being the prime example, the composition the squads is more seamless. I think is probably true that Arsenal can interchange their midfield without much variation in style and quality than we can. Pellegrini will need time to evolve his squad to one that is completely designed to play his way. I doubt that Manny would sanction the purchase of another James Milner; just as I doubt that Wenger would be bidding for Jimmy if we transfer listed him. Jimmy might, IMO, be the most overrated player, by a big chunk of our supporters, in City's squad but he is still a very useful player.
I could waffle on but the family have decided my rather excellent French toast is required.
The OP referred specifically to midfield and in that area, Arsenal's back-ups are probably closer in quality to their first choice midfield than ours are to one another. However, our first choice midfield is, IMO, easily the best in the league. Exeter Blue has been making the point recently that in some squads, Arsenal being the prime example, the composition the squads is more seamless. I think is probably true that Arsenal can interchange their midfield without much variation in style and quality than we can. Pellegrini will need time to evolve his squad to one that is completely designed to play his way. I doubt that Manny would sanction the purchase of another James Milner; just as I doubt that Wenger would be bidding for Jimmy if we transfer listed him. Jimmy might, IMO, be the most overrated player, by a big chunk of our supporters, in City's squad but he is still a very useful player.
I could waffle on but the family have decided my rather excellent French toast is required.