The Squad Depth Myth

[waspish]

I've said for the last three years, when it has kept on being said by the media and fans how we have this great squad, that we don't have a particularly good squad at all for a supposed top of a league/Champions Lg team.

In world football remove Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. Name 3 teams with better squads than us.

Agree our first 11 is up there with best in the world

 

[Anonymous]

I've said for the last three years, when it has kept on being said by the media and fans how we have this great squad, that we don't have a particularly good squad at all for a supposed top of a league/Champions Lg team.

In world football remove Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. Name 3 teams with better squads than us.

Agree our first 11 is up there with best in the world

Read my post again. I said squad.

 

[ZZmaestro]

I've said for the last three years, when it has kept on being said by the media and fans how we have this great squad, that we don't have a particularly good squad at all for a supposed top of a league/Champions Lg team.

In world football remove Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. Name 3 teams with better squads than us.

Agree our first 11 is up there with best in the world

For god sake, what has our starting XI to do with our SQUAD DEPTH ?

Squad depth means strength of our bench.
And I am sorry to disappoint you but we are far from having the best bench of the league, let alone consider comparing to Europe.

 

[Big Dave Watson]

I don't think our quality reaches down lower than the first 14 or 15 players of this current squad make up.

The most obvious thing for me is that Pellegrini and City are trying to establish a style of play from the youngsters right through to the first team.

But the team is unrecognisable in general play when the manager does attempt to utilise and rotate.

The quality of our starting eleven is such that is just exposes above average or below average players.

Not their fault, a result of a poor spending policy from previous years and the evolution taking place.

It's incredible though that through all the squad investment we have made over the last 3 or 4 years we are still a good 6/7 players short from having a good enough squad.

I suppose it shows that buying sicknotes doesn't help.

I agree, but it's the ending of a five-year cycle and the starting of a new one.

I fear we are going to run out of steam and luck if we continue to rely on players who come in and can't pick up the slack.

Rodwell, Garcia, Sinclair, Jovetic - that's £55m right there, which is just scary.

I don't see what we lose trying to recruit this window? If nothing else, we get upgrades and they are bang on it for the start of next season.

Chelsea's first eleven is a couple of yards down on us but their deeper squad quality is far superior for me.

Is there any indication this is possible though?

 

[SWP's back]

In world football remove Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. Name 3 teams with better squads than us.

Agree our first 11 is up there with best in the world

For god sake, what has our starting XI to do with our SQUAD DEPTH ?

Squad depth means strength of our bench.
And I am sorry to disappoint you but we are far from having the best bench of the league, let alone consider comparing to Europe.

Who has the best squad in the league (you have to include first 11 unless you are being a total simpleton for the very reasons Billy has mentioned).

 

[waspish]

Haha love this forum just nipping in and out of it and apologies to Billy and couple of the other posters I skimmed over miss read it. Forgive me for writing bollocks ;)

Squad wise though it's behind Bayern Madrid Barcelona Chelsea so it's probably up there with best...

 

[Deleted member 58678]

In world football remove Barca, Madrid, and Bayern. Name 3 teams with better squads than us.

Would Lescott, García, Boyata get game time at Juve, Atléti, Dortmund, Napoli, Chelsea, Arsenal?

That's not what I asked you big man. If City don't have a "particularly good squad at all for a supposed league/Champions Lg team" - other than the teams I mentioned who does ?

I think players on the bench of all the clubs I mentioned would come and sit on our bench ahead of the players like the three I mentioned and the always injured Richards Rodwell and Jovetić who are never there. So to answer the question again, all of those^

 

[Anonymous]

Would Lescott, García, Boyata get game time at Juve, Atléti, Dortmund, Napoli, Chelsea, Arsenal?

That's not what I asked you big man. If City don't have a "particularly good squad at all for a supposed league/Champions Lg team" - other than the teams I mentioned who does ?

I think players on the bench of all the clubs I mentioned would come and sit on our bench ahead of the players like the three I mentioned and the always injured Richards Rodwell and Jovetić who are never there. So to answer the question again, all of those^

So you think Dortmund, Juve, At Madrid, Napoli, Arsenal, and Chelsea all have better squads than City. I won't bore you by listing all their squads. However to say your wrong would be the understatement of the weekend on Bluemoon.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

That's not what I asked you big man. If City don't have a "particularly good squad at all for a supposed league/Champions Lg team" - other than the teams I mentioned who does ?

I think players on the bench of all the clubs I mentioned would come and sit on our bench ahead of the players like the three I mentioned and the always injured Richards Rodwell and Jovetić who are never there. So to answer the question again, all of those^

So you think Dortmund, Juve, At Madrid, Napoli, Arsenal, and Chelsea all have better squads than City. I won't bore you by listing all their squads. However to say your wrong would be the understatement of the weekend on Bluemoon.

We've got the best starting XI of all of those when they're all fit, they all have better squad depth or less of a gulf in quality when squad players have to come in than we do. So yes.

 

[Anonymous]

We've got the best starting XI of all of those when they're all fit, they all have better squad depth or less of a gulf in quality when squad players have to come in than we do. So yes.

Oh I know what you're postulating. I also know you're wrong.

 

[sir baconface]

The current issues highlight the importance of successfully developing young players. As already said, you can't have a squad of 25 established top-grade players.

The club's investment in this area is far-sighted. We all look forward to seeing the fruits of this policy in due course.

 

[cavendishblue]

IMHO the media narrative that we have the best squad and the title is ours to lose are all part of setting us up for a fall. If we win it they will portray it as not much of an achievement , if we don't it will be portrayed as a disaster for Pellegrini.

It's not an agenda it is simply that most of the media don't like us so will minimise the achievements and maximise the failures. No use getting worked up about it but we definitely do not have the best overall squad and it is no more "ours to lose" than it is Arsenal, Chelsea or even Liverpools. To be strictly accurate it is more United's title to lose than anybody's - same team that won it by 11 points 9 months ago. Sadly that is not a narrative that appeals to most of the media. s.

 

[adrianr]

I've only skimmed the thread, but have we properly defined the difference between the quality of backup players, and their suitability to fit into our system when required?

This is something that the rags under Ferguson, and more recently I'd argue Arsenal have been very successful at. You wouldn't take most squad players at either over the likes of Milner, Dzeko, Lescott, but they can assimilate those players into their system with greater success than we can.

Of course sending out an entire second string side will always cause a drop on quality for any side, but the key is the difference between the very best and the very worst. It's best explained as a series of peaks and troughs. At our very best, with our first 11, our peak is very high, arguably higher than anyone else is capable of. Unfortunately swap out too many of those players, and our troughs are lower (on average) than someone like Arsenal.

Given this dilemma you have two options. Play a system everyone fits into, or play the system you think gets the best out of the best players. I'd argue under Pellegrini so far we've leaned far more towards the latter than the former, which has given us some incredible performances, whilst at the same time creating some fairly shaky ones when the best players don't feature. It's also developed a huge over reliance on Fernandinho.

Sounds pretty bad, but then you have to look at it on a greater time scale than we're used to. Would you rather muddle through the season accomodating everyone into a style we don't want to play, some of whom won't even be here next season? Or do you press on developing the style anyway, knowing the right additions in the transfer window will allow you to really take off the following season? That's also not to say it won't be successful enough this season to win silver wear either, we just have to be a little luckier with injuries than we have been (and no injuries to Fernandinho).

All the above is largely ignoring that three of what should be our better second string are always injured too.

Either way I agree with LC that we're due a few poor results soon. Some players already look like they've lost a fair bit of sharpness and we've got away with it a bit in a few matches. Just have to hope that at this time of year our competition start doing the same. A few draws/losses a piece for Chelsea and Arsenal would be very welcome. Especially as I really want to win that bloody league cup!

 

[Goatfacekillah]

IMHO the media narrative that we have the best squad and the title is ours to lose are all part of setting us up for a fall. If we win it they will portray it as not much of an achievement , if we don't it will be portrayed as a disaster for Pellegrini.

It's not an agenda it is simply that most of the media don't like us so will minimise the achievements and maximise the failures. No use getting worked up about it but we definitely do not have the best overall squad and it is no more "ours to lose" than it is Arsenal, Chelsea or even Liverpools. To be strictly accurate it is more United's title to lose than anybody's - same team that won it by 11 points 9 months ago. Sadly that is not a narrative that appeals to most of the media. s.

I think Chelsea's squad is better and I think that's why Mou decided to get in their first and suggest that's is us who have the greatest depth.

By 'better' I mean that their second 11 would be better than ours. I think our first 11 is the best in the league.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

We had one of these 'our squad depth is terrifying" panics a few weeks ago. I think it was after Newcastle in the cup.

Then the next time out they spanked bayern.

Our squad would benefit from some shrewd tweaking, but that's the case for all top squads. If we don't sign anyone else we will have enough. Yesterday was as much about good players playing poorly as it was about lack of depth.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Yesterday was as much about good players playing poorly as it was about lack of depth.

Probably but I also think a couple of them were out of their depth

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Yesterday was as much about good players playing poorly as it was about lack of depth.

Probably but I also think a couple of them were out of their depth

Boyata at right back was. But there was no one else out there who wouldn't be fine as a squad player in a title winning team. We are stretched because we are in all the cups and have loads of injuries.

 

[OB1]

That's not what I asked you big man. If City don't have a "particularly good squad at all for a supposed league/Champions Lg team" - other than the teams I mentioned who does ?

I think players on the bench of all the clubs I mentioned would come and sit on our bench ahead of the players like the three I mentioned and the always injured Richards Rodwell and Jovetić who are never there. So to answer the question again, all of those^

So you think Dortmund, Juve, At Madrid, Napoli, Arsenal, and Chelsea all have better squads than City. I won't bore you by listing all their squads. However to say your wrong would be the understatement of the weekend on Bluemoon.

I don't think any of those teams has better squads than City. One or two may be stronger in certain areas but overall: no.<br /><br />-- Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:56 pm --<br /><br />

Yesterday was as much about good players playing poorly as it was about lack of depth.

Probably but I also think a couple of them were out of their depth

Boyata at right back was. But there was no one else out there who wouldn't be fine as a squad player in a title winning team. We are stretched because we are in all the cups and have loads of injuries.

Yup.

And to answer a question that I think was posed by adrianr: I think we should press on with developing a style and change the players that can't handle it as and when we can.

 

[Jimfv1]

Yesterday was as much about good players playing poorly as it was about lack of depth.

Probably but I also think a couple of them were out of their depth

Boyata at right back was. But there was no one else out there who wouldn't be fine as a squad player in a title winning team. We are stretched because we are in all the cups and have loads of injuries.

And our biggest problem is the three perma-injured squad players and what the club do to cope with them all missing for huge chunks of the season.
Do the club spend to alleviate the strain on the players who are carrying the burden ?
Can we afford to take a chance that all three players will get fit before the month ends and can stay mostly fit until the summer ?
What happens if we continue to miss the three players for the rest of the season and end up missing out on any trophies this season, will it be because we haven't been good enough or because we lost a couple of important players to niggly injuries due to overplaying them because of lack of capable understudies ?

No one can see the future, but would a couple of additions in /January give us a better chance of picking up trophies ?

 

[FantasyIreland]

Garcia is the other.

Not one of our rivals has a first choice backup who's as inept and ineffective in his role.