The Sun "newspaper"

Chippy_boy said:
Chris in London said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pige is right up to a point about the limited impact of the bile-ridden narrative of much of the media in this country upon City's plans to appeal to a wider audience, but I don't think that's the point for many City fans.

How the club is perceived in this country is important to many fans. There is an innate desire within nearly all supporters of all clubs to want to feel proud of their club. It's a little absurd if you think about it, because we have little or no power over how our clubs are run, but nonetheless the vast majority derive a sense of pride if their club is well supported, plays in the right way or if there's a good team spirit in the squad, for example. The same goes for how 'big' people's club they support is. To deride the club of someone else as 'small' or 'small time' for that matter is used as a weapon of choice in the game of footballing one-upmanship. It's nuts that it gets to people if you stop and think about it. Why should your club being perceived as smaller than you personally consider it, be a source of anything other than a shrug of the shoulders, rather than provoking a response like quoting attendance figures from fifteen years ago, for example. It shouldn't matter, but it does.

Wanting to protect and defend something we care about is a natural human instinct and for most football supporters that extends to the club they support. When people in the press, who purport to be professionals, write lies about our club, or don't report in a balanced, even handed way, or comment upon the club in a sneering, disrespectful way then for many of us, the responses you see on here are a natural reaction to that, myself included.

If I meet someone in a pub and they start bad mouthing City to me, then I usually disabuse them of whatever misconceptions they've got in fairly short order. I cannot respond in a similar way to the likes of Rob Beasley, not least because he hasn't engaged with me directly. On that basis it is entirely natural for me, and others, to express our disquiet about him and what he's said on a football forum. It's merely football supporters doing what comes naturally.

It's tribal. That's why we feel protective of our club, thats why take a pride in it's achievements and it's why we feel better about ourselves when we win. Did your mortgage rate come down when we won the league? Me neither. But I still felt fucking fantastic for weeks afterwards.

Where I seriously part company with pidge is his dismissal of the importance of brand management and the impact in commercial terms of negative publicity over a prolonged period.

We all know what the butterfly effect is. In terms of multinational brand management the way to prevent the butterfly effect from taking hold to the point where it harms your brand is to stop the butterfly from flapping it's wings. That is why big companies try to micro-manage their brand image to the Nth degree.

Stepping away from football, the biggest libel trial in English legal history was a case brought by McDonalds against some protesters who had been handing out leaflets outside McDonalds in Bristol or somewhere. The general tenor of the leaflets was 'big macs are shit in nutritional terms'. The trial of McDonalds libel claim took over a year. They poured millions and millions and millions into the budget, calling expert nutritionists from over the world to deal with the fat content and the freshness of the salad. They had no chance of recovering any money from the publishers of the leaflet (who handed out a few hundred leaflets maybe) but that wasn't why they brought the claim. They did so in order to stomp on anybody else who might have been thinking about bad-mouthing them - harming the brand. They did so in full knowledge that they would be seen as the Bad Guy in this David v Goliath legal case, but they calculated the harm to their brand was much greater if they did nothing. And They didn't just protect their brand, they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut in doing so.

On pidge's analysis, they should have said to themselves 'who cares what some bearded **** who wears socks with his sandals says in some shit leaflet he hands out on a wet Saturday morning in Bristol. We're McDonald's, we have an outlet within 15 minutes drive time of 95% of the country.'

They didn't. They went to extraordinary lengths to protect their brand image, and almost any other big company would have adopted more or less the same strategy.

The point is, brand image matters. You don't get rust from one drop of rain falling on your bike, you get it from it raining all the time. Every click on a negative article about city is like another drop of rain. The effect is cumulative, and it's damaging. Every major commercial organisation in the world knows this. That's why we should worry about it.

Now THAT is a cracking post.

I am completely staggered that anyone (Pige) could disagree with a word of it. Clearly the bile and hatred being spouted by some of the media is detrimental. The only question is how detrimental and whether on a balance of judgement it is better to let it wash over us, or to take active steps to stop it. Personally, I think some of the latter is appropriate. I am not talking about sueing anyone, MacDonald's style (yet). But banning certain journalists from press conferences might be a start.

Is it a coincidence that Ferguson took all this so seriously, and at the same time, during his reign he benefitted from very supportive media coverage and countless beneficial referreeing decisions? No, it is not coincidence.
Clearly it is, I think personally Pidgeonho is playing Devil's Advocate at this stage. Look, if I'm not happy with the way we're reported I'll quite happily take a minute or two to file a complaint or write an e-mail, I don't know if any of you do the same but it could have an effect on some of these cockwombles if their editors start receiving more complaints about them.

and I'm not trying for any 'biggest blue' awards here btw.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Chippy_boy said:
Chris in London said:
It's tribal. That's why we feel protective of our club, thats why take a pride in it's achievements and it's why we feel better about ourselves when we win. Did your mortgage rate come down when we won the league? Me neither. But I still felt fucking fantastic for weeks afterwards.

Where I seriously part company with pidge is his dismissal of the importance of brand management and the impact in commercial terms of negative publicity over a prolonged period.

We all know what the butterfly effect is. In terms of multinational brand management the way to prevent the butterfly effect from taking hold to the point where it harms your brand is to stop the butterfly from flapping it's wings. That is why big companies try to micro-manage their brand image to the Nth degree.

Stepping away from football, the biggest libel trial in English legal history was a case brought by McDonalds against some protesters who had been handing out leaflets outside McDonalds in Bristol or somewhere. The general tenor of the leaflets was 'big macs are shit in nutritional terms'. The trial of McDonalds libel claim took over a year. They poured millions and millions and millions into the budget, calling expert nutritionists from over the world to deal with the fat content and the freshness of the salad. They had no chance of recovering any money from the publishers of the leaflet (who handed out a few hundred leaflets maybe) but that wasn't why they brought the claim. They did so in order to stomp on anybody else who might have been thinking about bad-mouthing them - harming the brand. They did so in full knowledge that they would be seen as the Bad Guy in this David v Goliath legal case, but they calculated the harm to their brand was much greater if they did nothing. And They didn't just protect their brand, they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut in doing so.

On pidge's analysis, they should have said to themselves 'who cares what some bearded **** who wears socks with his sandals says in some shit leaflet he hands out on a wet Saturday morning in Bristol. We're McDonald's, we have an outlet within 15 minutes drive time of 95% of the country.'

They didn't. They went to extraordinary lengths to protect their brand image, and almost any other big company would have adopted more or less the same strategy.

The point is, brand image matters. You don't get rust from one drop of rain falling on your bike, you get it from it raining all the time. Every click on a negative article about city is like another drop of rain. The effect is cumulative, and it's damaging. Every major commercial organisation in the world knows this. That's why we should worry about it.

Now THAT is a cracking post.

I am completely staggered that anyone (Pige) could disagree with a word of it. Clearly the bile and hatred being spouted by some of the media is detrimental. The only question is how detrimental and whether on a balance of judgement it is better to let it wash over us, or to take active steps to stop it. Personally, I think some of the latter is appropriate. I am not talking about sueing anyone, MacDonald's style (yet). But banning certain journalists from press conferences might be a start.

Is it a coincidence that Ferguson took all this so seriously, and at the same time, during his reign he benefitted from very supportive media coverage and countless beneficial referreeing decisions? No, it is not coincidence.
Clearly it is, I think personally Pidgeonho is playing Devil's Advocate at this stage. Look, if I'm not happy with the way we're reported I'll quite happily take a minute or two to file a complaint or write an e-mail, I don't know if any of you do the same but it could have an effect on some of these cockwombles if their editors start receiving more complaints about them.

and I'm not trying for any 'biggest blue' awards here btw.
How am I playing devil's advocate on this?
 
Re: The Sun "newspaper"

Pigeonho said:
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
moomba said:
Pige has admitted in the past his arguments are shaped by which side of the debate he has put himself on rather than his actual beliefs.

So are everyone else's.
It is a perfectly natural stance.

I doubt he believes half of what he is saying in this thread.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?
Do you have the ability to psychoanalise posters you have never met?
I broadly agree with him - or do I not believe half of what I'm posting either?
Moomba is just resorting to trying to have a pop when everyone else on the thread can see exactly where my stance is where this is concerned. Moomba likes to do that, and I would say he's resorted to it because he doesn't like the fact i'm making sense. Fuck Moomba anyway, that's how I see it.

Its not a pop. You admitted it yourself that you argued one side when it happened against City, and took the exact opposite stance when it happened in our favour because it suited your argument that there is no refereeing agenda against City (which I agree with).

You can hardly then have a cry when your stance is questioned on a similar issue.
 
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
Chippy_boy said:
Now THAT is a cracking post.

I am completely staggered that anyone (Pige) could disagree with a word of it. Clearly the bile and hatred being spouted by some of the media is detrimental. The only question is how detrimental and whether on a balance of judgement it is better to let it wash over us, or to take active steps to stop it. Personally, I think some of the latter is appropriate. I am not talking about sueing anyone, MacDonald's style (yet). But banning certain journalists from press conferences might be a start.

Is it a coincidence that Ferguson took all this so seriously, and at the same time, during his reign he benefitted from very supportive media coverage and countless beneficial referreeing decisions? No, it is not coincidence.
Clearly it is, I think personally Pidgeonho is playing Devil's Advocate at this stage. Look, if I'm not happy with the way we're reported I'll quite happily take a minute or two to file a complaint or write an e-mail, I don't know if any of you do the same but it could have an effect on some of these cockwombles if their editors start receiving more complaints about them.

and I'm not trying for any 'biggest blue' awards here btw.
How am I playing devil's advocate on this?
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
Clearly it is, I think personally Pidgeonho is playing Devil's Advocate at this stage. Look, if I'm not happy with the way we're reported I'll quite happily take a minute or two to file a complaint or write an e-mail, I don't know if any of you do the same but it could have an effect on some of these cockwombles if their editors start receiving more complaints about them.

and I'm not trying for any 'biggest blue' awards here btw.
How am I playing devil's advocate on this?
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
 
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
How am I playing devil's advocate on this?
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.
Ah well, there you go then.
 
There is little we, as individuals, can do to influence the tone, style or content of media articles concerning City. We can, if we feel strongly enough, express our feelings by not buying, clicking on, watching or listening to those newspapers or stations that we think do not represent our club in a fair manner. If every City fan stopped listening to Talksport, watching Sunday Supplement or reading the newspapers would it have any impact on those people? Unfortunately not. We are a drop in the ocean when it comes to viewing figures.

That doesn't mean to say we shouldn't be concerned about how the club is portrayed in the media because, as others have said, brand awareness and perception is vitally important to any and every business. We don't see our club as a 'brand', and nor should we, it is our club, our passion and, Lord help us the day we see ourselves in any other way. But for the owners and management, it is their responsibility and duty to manage the way the club is portrayed in the media. For City, as with everything else since the takeover, we are moving in new territory, dealing with media interest on a level that we could never have imagined 5 years ago. It would certainly appear that the owners have decided that they will pursue a friendly, non confrontational, open door style policy with the media. This is obviously in keeping with the style and culture that they have brought to all areas of the club, and in complete contrast to the way our neighbours have operated in previous years. Albeit I am sure that there will be a huge shift in policy down at Old Trafford given their current plight.

As I see it City are trying to build relationships with media, I am sure there have been several occasions when the PR department has indicated their displeasure at the content of some media articles, but essentially the club do not wish to be seen as arrogant and/or un-welcoming. As fans, understandably and is our absolute right, we tend to jump straight in, declare a conspiracy and shout "ban that **** Custis" or whoever is the current object of our angst. But as we grow and as we continue to be successful, our influence and control over the media will increase and we will, hopefully, reap the benefit of the relationships we have built and the media friendly atmosphere that surrounds us. We need to keep in mind that the club need the media as much as the media need City.
 
Re: The Sun

Pigeonho said:
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
moomba said:
Pige has admitted in the past his arguments are shaped by which side of the debate he has put himself on rather than his actual beliefs.

So are everyone else's.
It is a perfectly natural stance.

I doubt he believes half of what he is saying in this thread.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?
Do you have the ability to psychoanalise posters you have never met?
I broadly agree with him - or do I not believe half of what I'm posting either?
Moomba is just resorting to trying to have a pop when everyone else on the thread can see exactly where my stance is where this is concerned. Moomba likes to do that, and I would say he's resorted to it because he doesn't like the fact i'm making sense. Fuck Moomba anyway, that's how I see it.

In fairness mate I stopped taking him seriously when he said that Ferguson's mind games didn't work.
Now he knows just what posters are really thinking, and can tell when they are bluffing.
I bet he's unbeatable at poker.
I just hope he can tell what I'm thinking about him right now.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.

Whether he is or he isn't only pidge knows - I don't think he is BTW, and I respect his view and his right to have an opinion, I just don't agree with it.

But it would be a fucking dull forum if we all agreed with each other all the time.
 

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