The Sun "newspaper"

Re: The Sun "newspaper"

nijinsky's fetlocks said:
Pigeonho said:
Moomba is just resorting to trying to have a pop when everyone else on the thread can see exactly where my stance is where this is concerned. Moomba likes to do that, and I would say he's resorted to it because he doesn't like the fact i'm making sense. Fuck Moomba anyway, that's how I see it.

In fairness mate I stopped taking him seriously when he said that Ferguson's mind games didn't work.
Now he knows just what posters are really thinking, and can tell when they are bluffing.
I bet he's unbeatable at poker.
I just hope he can tell what I'm thinking about him right now.

Funny thing is that you cite Man Uniteds success as evidence that his mind games work. I simply said it was as much to do with them having the best team for nearly two decades.

I could make the same argument as you that Uniteds success is evidence that Fergusons control of the media worked.

But you carry on refusing to debate with me because its not worth your time. I'm sure soon you'll stop actually engaging in debate with me as well.
 
Chris in London said:
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.

Whether he is or he isn't only pidge knows - I don't think he is BTW, and I respect his view and his right to have an opinion, I just don't agree with it.

But it would be a fucking dull forum if we all agreed with each other all the time.
It would be, without a doubt.
I never said playing Devil's advocate was a bad thing btw :)
 
Chris in London said:
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.



But it would be a fucking dull forum if we all agreed with each other all the time.

No it fucking wouldn't.
And Moomba has told me via autosuggestion that you didn't mean what you posted anyway.
 
Chris in London said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pige is right up to a point about the limited impact of the bile-ridden narrative of much of the media in this country upon City's plans to appeal to a wider audience, but I don't think that's the point for many City fans.

How the club is perceived in this country is important to many fans. There is an innate desire within nearly all supporters of all clubs to want to feel proud of their club. It's a little absurd if you think about it, because we have little or no power over how our clubs are run, but nonetheless the vast majority derive a sense of pride if their club is well supported, plays in the right way or if there's a good team spirit in the squad, for example. The same goes for how 'big' people's club they support is. To deride the club of someone else as 'small' or 'small time' for that matter is used as a weapon of choice in the game of footballing one-upmanship. It's nuts that it gets to people if you stop and think about it. Why should your club being perceived as smaller than you personally consider it, be a source of anything other than a shrug of the shoulders, rather than provoking a response like quoting attendance figures from fifteen years ago, for example. It shouldn't matter, but it does.

Wanting to protect and defend something we care about is a natural human instinct and for most football supporters that extends to the club they support. When people in the press, who purport to be professionals, write lies about our club, or don't report in a balanced, even handed way, or comment upon the club in a sneering, disrespectful way then for many of us, the responses you see on here are a natural reaction to that, myself included.

If I meet someone in a pub and they start bad mouthing City to me, then I usually disabuse them of whatever misconceptions they've got in fairly short order. I cannot respond in a similar way to the likes of Rob Beasley, not least because he hasn't engaged with me directly. On that basis it is entirely natural for me, and others, to express our disquiet about him and what he's said on a football forum. It's merely football supporters doing what comes naturally.

It's tribal. That's why we feel protective of our club, thats why take a pride in it's achievements and it's why we feel better about ourselves when we win. Did your mortgage rate come down when we won the league? Me neither. But I still felt fucking fantastic for weeks afterwards.

Where I seriously part company with pidge is his dismissal of the importance of brand management and the impact in commercial terms of negative publicity over a prolonged period.

We all know what the butterfly effect is. In terms of multinational brand management the way to prevent the butterfly effect from taking hold to the point where it harms your brand is to stop the butterfly from flapping it's wings. That is why big companies try to micro-manage their brand image to the Nth degree.

Stepping away from football, the biggest libel trial in English legal history was a case brought by McDonalds against some protesters who had been handing out leaflets outside McDonalds in Bristol or somewhere. The general tenor of the leaflets was 'big macs are shit in nutritional terms'. The trial of McDonalds libel claim took over a year. They poured millions and millions and millions into the budget, calling expert nutritionists from over the world to deal with the fat content and the freshness of the salad. They had no chance of recovering any money from the publishers of the leaflet (who handed out a few hundred leaflets maybe) but that wasn't why they brought the claim. They did so in order to stomp on anybody else who might have been thinking about bad-mouthing them - harming the brand. They did so in full knowledge that they would be seen as the Bad Guy in this David v Goliath legal case, but they calculated the harm to their brand was much greater if they did nothing. And They didn't just protect their brand, they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut in doing so.

On pidge's analysis, they should have said to themselves 'who cares what some bearded **** who wears socks with his sandals says in some shit leaflet he hands out on a wet Saturday morning in Bristol. We're McDonald's, we have an outlet within 15 minutes drive time of 95% of the country.'

They didn't. They went to extraordinary lengths to protect their brand image, and almost any other big company would have adopted more or less the same strategy.

The point is, brand image matters. You don't get rust from one drop of rain falling on your bike, you get it from it raining all the time. Every click on a negative article about city is like another drop of rain. The effect is cumulative, and it's damaging. Every major commercial organisation in the world knows this. That's why we should worry about it.


Couple of cracking posts together
 
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
Chris in London said:
aguero93:20 said:
I did and I know you haven't always entirely disagreed with my posts, but I still think you're playing Devil's Advocate. IMO.



But it would be a fucking dull forum if we all agreed with each other all the time.

No it fucking wouldn't.
And Moomba has told me via autosuggestion that you didn't mean what you posted anyway.

I think mostly you say what you mean and you mean what you say, but sometimes I wonder if you don't mean what you say or perhaps you aren't saying what you mean. But usually you say what you mean but when you don't mean what you say you mean that too

if you see what I mean
 
Chris in London said:
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
Chris in London said:
But it would be a fucking dull forum if we all agreed with each other all the time.

No it fucking wouldn't.
And Moomba has told me via autosuggestion that you didn't mean what you posted anyway.

I think mostly you say what you mean and you mean what you say, but sometimes I wonder if you don't mean what you say or perhaps you aren't saying what you mean. But usually you say what you mean but when you don't mean what you say you mean that too

if you see what I mean

Word.
 
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
Pigeonho said:
How am I playing devil's advocate on this?
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.

If you are disagreeing with what "Chris in London" wrote (his long post), then you must be (a) a wind up merchant, (b) thick as pigshit, or (c) barking mad. In the interests of politeness - and because I think it's correct - I rule out (b) and (c).
 
Chippy_boy said:
Pigeonho said:
aguero93:20 said:
by challenging every post you see that has a mention of bias or agenda, you can't disagree with all of them.
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.

If you are disagreeing with what "Chris in London" wrote (his long post), then you must be (a) a wind up merchant, (b) thick as pigshit, or (c) barking mad. In the interests of politeness - and because I think it's correct - I rule out (b) and (c).
Where have I disagreed with Chris, in London?
 
Pigeonho said:
Chippy_boy said:
Pigeonho said:
Did you not see the post I replied to GDM with? His is a cracking post, but then I went on to explain where I differ. It's not about disagreeing with everyone for the sake of it, it's about disagreeing with them because, believe it or not, I disagree with what they're saying in the main.

If you are disagreeing with what "Chris in London" wrote (his long post), then you must be (a) a wind up merchant, (b) thick as pigshit, or (c) barking mad. In the interests of politeness - and because I think it's correct - I rule out (b) and (c).
Where have I disagreed with Chris, in London?

I think you were in Stockport once, and maybe twice in Beswick
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Chris in London said:
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pige is right up to a point about the limited impact of the bile-ridden narrative of much of the media in this country upon City's plans to appeal to a wider audience, but I don't think that's the point for many City fans.

How the club is perceived in this country is important to many fans. There is an innate desire within nearly all supporters of all clubs to want to feel proud of their club. It's a little absurd if you think about it, because we have little or no power over how our clubs are run, but nonetheless the vast majority derive a sense of pride if their club is well supported, plays in the right way or if there's a good team spirit in the squad, for example. The same goes for how 'big' people's club they support is. To deride the club of someone else as 'small' or 'small time' for that matter is used as a weapon of choice in the game of footballing one-upmanship. It's nuts that it gets to people if you stop and think about it. Why should your club being perceived as smaller than you personally consider it, be a source of anything other than a shrug of the shoulders, rather than provoking a response like quoting attendance figures from fifteen years ago, for example. It shouldn't matter, but it does.

Wanting to protect and defend something we care about is a natural human instinct and for most football supporters that extends to the club they support. When people in the press, who purport to be professionals, write lies about our club, or don't report in a balanced, even handed way, or comment upon the club in a sneering, disrespectful way then for many of us, the responses you see on here are a natural reaction to that, myself included.

If I meet someone in a pub and they start bad mouthing City to me, then I usually disabuse them of whatever misconceptions they've got in fairly short order. I cannot respond in a similar way to the likes of Rob Beasley, not least because he hasn't engaged with me directly. On that basis it is entirely natural for me, and others, to express our disquiet about him and what he's said on a football forum. It's merely football supporters doing what comes naturally.

It's tribal. That's why we feel protective of our club, thats why take a pride in it's achievements and it's why we feel better about ourselves when we win. Did your mortgage rate come down when we won the league? Me neither. But I still felt fucking fantastic for weeks afterwards.

Where I seriously part company with pidge is his dismissal of the importance of brand management and the impact in commercial terms of negative publicity over a prolonged period.

We all know what the butterfly effect is. In terms of multinational brand management the way to prevent the butterfly effect from taking hold to the point where it harms your brand is to stop the butterfly from flapping it's wings. That is why big companies try to micro-manage their brand image to the Nth degree.

Stepping away from football, the biggest libel trial in English legal history was a case brought by McDonalds against some protesters who had been handing out leaflets outside McDonalds in Bristol or somewhere. The general tenor of the leaflets was 'big macs are shit in nutritional terms'. The trial of McDonalds libel claim took over a year. They poured millions and millions and millions into the budget, calling expert nutritionists from over the world to deal with the fat content and the freshness of the salad. They had no chance of recovering any money from the publishers of the leaflet (who handed out a few hundred leaflets maybe) but that wasn't why they brought the claim. They did so in order to stomp on anybody else who might have been thinking about bad-mouthing them - harming the brand. They did so in full knowledge that they would be seen as the Bad Guy in this David v Goliath legal case, but they calculated the harm to their brand was much greater if they did nothing. And They didn't just protect their brand, they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut in doing so.

On pidge's analysis, they should have said to themselves 'who cares what some bearded **** who wears socks with his sandals says in some shit leaflet he hands out on a wet Saturday morning in Bristol. We're McDonald's, we have an outlet within 15 minutes drive time of 95% of the country.'

They didn't. They went to extraordinary lengths to protect their brand image, and almost any other big company would have adopted more or less the same strategy.

The point is, brand image matters. You don't get rust from one drop of rain falling on your bike, you get it from it raining all the time. Every click on a negative article about city is like another drop of rain. The effect is cumulative, and it's damaging. Every major commercial organisation in the world knows this. That's why we should worry about it.


Couple of cracking posts together

Aren't they just. Hats off fellas, I have neither the ability or the education to articulate myself as well as that, but both those posts are bang on the button.
 

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