The Tottenham Thread 12/13

[Castiel]

So Castiel what do you think of 'Fat Spanish Waiter'. I remember telling you that he is a pretty decent manager before, which you point blank denied, so how do you explain your rise in performance? I think an objective observer would have to admit that Benitez has done a pretty good job so far.

So I think I'll trust my managerial judgment over your's haha. At times we were better under Harry. At times we were much, much worse. Particularly in the latter part of seasons. I'm pleased to see that we haven't collapsed like we did last season, we actually picked up 11 points in the last 5 league games which is pretty good, and we've only been beaten twice in the last 19. I'm also pleased to see that we've started beating the better teams, while under Harry we usually lost and at times got hammered.

Unlike the Chelsea board and owner, I know that a manager like AVB needs to be given time. I didn't expect us to be where we are this season, I can see that some aspects of his style will take a longer time to develop. Under Harry our players were used to a very free form type of football, and the transition to an organized system where each player has defined roles is a difficult one to make. Ultimately I believe that we will profit from having patience and not being trigger happy with a promising young manager.

He isn't a decent manager. At best he's average. He's lost 3 cups, two of which we should have won and we were in the title race before he arrived. Now we're in the "top 4 race". Chelsea always finishes the season strong. We're always good at this stage when the going gets tough. Sooner he's gone the better. He continues to play Torres over Ba for no reason and his general selections are incredibly bizarre. Always, ALWAYS makes like for like substitutions at around the 70th minute - whether the game is going well or not. With the squad we have we should be title contenders, Benitez has us scraping into CL qualification and you reckon he's a decent manager?

RDM with hardly any managerial experience was twice the manager he is, and had us top of the table until Clattenburg. And he did that without Ba.

Doesn't matter to me if Spurs go into denial over AVB. Longer he hangs around there the better as far as I'm concerned. I think he too is average, but the problem is he thinks he's better than he is. It's clear to anyone that Bale has single handedly been carrying Spurs so far which has nothing to do with AVB. You didn't grind out points against Wigan and Southampton - Bale just saved you. Neither Modric, VDV nor Bale carried you under Harry. At least you played as a proper team and just needed some additions, some depth and some bottle.

I don't even have a personal problem with AVB. I quite liked him when he was here. But he completely mismanaged this team and he made some absurd decisions in selection and tactics. Look at Napoli least year. They hammered us in the first leg, and we dominated them in the second. He even dropped Cole (against Lavezzi) in that first leg for goodness sake even after seeing what he did to Man City in the groups.

 

[Dzeko's Right Boot]

Interesting how Spurs are playing in a kind of Champions League play-off again, like against us in 2010. I think for that reason, I'm hoping they lose. I'd hate to see the media wank over them again like last time.

I don't think Spurs can lose after this season, though. They lose, they sell Bale and buy 2-3 top players to improve the squad (winger, striker, creative midfielder. They have a solid defence and can build on that). If they win, they keep a £60m asset and have an extra £30m to spend. Obviously, one situation is better than the other but either is good.

I don't understand why they are being criticised for relying on Bale either. It's a bit sickening to see a team so high up because of one man's skills, but I'd love it if we had someone as good as him. I certainly wasn't complaining when we relied on Tevez so much in the first few years of Mansour.

 

[THFC6061]

Interesting how Spurs are playing in a kind of Champions League play-off again, like against us in 2010. I think for that reason, I'm hoping they lose. I'd hate to see the media wank over them again like last time.

I don't think Spurs can lose after this season, though. They lose, they sell Bale and buy 2-3 top players to improve the squad (winger, striker, creative midfielder. They have a solid defence and can build on that). If they win, they keep a £60m asset and have an extra £30m to spend. Obviously, one situation is better than the other but either is good.

I don't understand why they are being criticised for relying on Bale either. It's a bit sickening to see a team so high up because of one man's skills, but I'd love it if we had someone as good as him. I certainly wasn't complaining when we relied on Tevez so much in the first few years of Mansour.

It seems to me that the same people who are criticising Spurs for relying on Gareth Bale were exactly the same ones who were calling him Gareth Fail a few years back when he had yet to be on a winning Spurs side in the Premier League.

They then insisted that he only ever played one good game (his Champions League hat-trick against Inter Milan).

Go figure!

For your further enjoyment, here are some choice comments from Red Cafe from July 2009...

He's one of those 'inbetween' players - not good enough defensively to be a top full back, and not quite good enough going forward to be a winger. He is perfect as a wing back, but not many teams play a system with 3 centrebacks these days at the top level.

I think he needs to move as the signing of Walker and McNaughton from Sheffield United, added to Hutton and Assou-Ekotto (and O'Hara can play left back) I can't see him getting many games next year.

Could be that he doesn't have the right mentality for it, too.

You can't just blame it on everyone else but him, he has to take some of the blame for being so poor at Spurs.

I don't know, I thought he's always been largely pish for Spurs.

http://www.redcafe.net/f9/milan-roma-ajax-after-gareth-fail-260826/

 

[jimharri]

Interesting how Spurs are playing in a kind of Champions League play-off again, like against us in 2010. I think for that reason, I'm hoping they lose. I'd hate to see the media wank over them again like last time.

I don't think Spurs can lose after this season, though. They lose, they sell Bale and buy 2-3 top players to improve the squad (winger, striker, creative midfielder. They have a solid defence and can build on that). If they win, they keep a £60m asset and have an extra £30m to spend. Obviously, one situation is better than the other but either is good.

I don't understand why they are being criticised for relying on Bale either. It's a bit sickening to see a team so high up because of one man's skills, but I'd love it if we had someone as good as him. I certainly wasn't complaining when we relied on Tevez so much in the first few years of Mansour.

Solid defence? Seriously? Their back 4 is distinctly average, in my opinion. Granted, Vertonghen looks a decent player (not the finished article yet though), but the other three are nothing special. Walker is a candidate for the most over-rated player in the premiership, I can't see how Assou-Ekotto holds down a place in a PL back 4 and Dawson simply isn't top drawer. To be fair to the current mob though, defence has always been Spurs' weak point going back to when I used to see them at Maine Road back in the seventies.

 

[THFC6061]

Interesting how Spurs are playing in a kind of Champions League play-off again, like against us in 2010. I think for that reason, I'm hoping they lose. I'd hate to see the media wank over them again like last time.

I don't think Spurs can lose after this season, though. They lose, they sell Bale and buy 2-3 top players to improve the squad (winger, striker, creative midfielder. They have a solid defence and can build on that). If they win, they keep a £60m asset and have an extra £30m to spend. Obviously, one situation is better than the other but either is good.

I don't understand why they are being criticised for relying on Bale either. It's a bit sickening to see a team so high up because of one man's skills, but I'd love it if we had someone as good as him. I certainly wasn't complaining when we relied on Tevez so much in the first few years of Mansour.

Solid defence? Seriously? Their back 4 is distinctly average, in my opinion. Granted, Vertonghen looks a decent player (not the finished article yet though), but the other three are nothing special. Walker is a candidate for the most over-rated player in the premiership, I can't see how Assou-Ekotto holds down a place in a PL back 4 and Dawson simply isn't top drawer. To be fair to the current mob though, defence has always been Spurs' weak point going back to when I used to see them at Maine Road back in the seventies.

You should bear in mind that our regular starter at centre-half, Younes Kaboul, has been out injured for the entire season, bar the first game against Newcastle.

I'm really looking forward to a central defence partnership of Kaboul & Vertonghen next season, with Sandro back to provide extra cover in the deep midfield role.

 

[jimharri]

Interesting how Spurs are playing in a kind of Champions League play-off again, like against us in 2010. I think for that reason, I'm hoping they lose. I'd hate to see the media wank over them again like last time.

I don't think Spurs can lose after this season, though. They lose, they sell Bale and buy 2-3 top players to improve the squad (winger, striker, creative midfielder. They have a solid defence and can build on that). If they win, they keep a £60m asset and have an extra £30m to spend. Obviously, one situation is better than the other but either is good.

I don't understand why they are being criticised for relying on Bale either. It's a bit sickening to see a team so high up because of one man's skills, but I'd love it if we had someone as good as him. I certainly wasn't complaining when we relied on Tevez so much in the first few years of Mansour.

Solid defence? Seriously? Their back 4 is distinctly average, in my opinion. Granted, Vertonghen looks a decent player (not the finished article yet though), but the other three are nothing special. Walker is a candidate for the most over-rated player in the premiership, I can't see how Assou-Ekotto holds down a place in a PL back 4 and Dawson simply isn't top drawer. To be fair to the current mob though, defence has always been Spurs' weak point going back to when I used to see them at Maine Road back in the seventies.

You should bear in mind that our regular starter at centre-half, Younes Kaboul, has been out injured for the entire season, bar the first game against Newcastle.

I'm really looking forward to a central defence partnership of Kaboul & Vertonghen next season, with Sandro back to provide extra cover in the deep midfield role.

Fair point. Still doesn't address the issue of your two full backs though. How Walker won the young player of the year award a couple of years back is still a mystery to me. His positional sense is way off, and there's a potential mistake in him every time I see him. The same goes for Dawson. As for BAE; sorry, but no.

 

[THFC6061]

Solid defence? Seriously? Their back 4 is distinctly average, in my opinion. Granted, Vertonghen looks a decent player (not the finished article yet though), but the other three are nothing special. Walker is a candidate for the most over-rated player in the premiership, I can't see how Assou-Ekotto holds down a place in a PL back 4 and Dawson simply isn't top drawer. To be fair to the current mob though, defence has always been Spurs' weak point going back to when I used to see them at Maine Road back in the seventies.

You should bear in mind that our regular starter at centre-half, Younes Kaboul, has been out injured for the entire season, bar the first game against Newcastle.

I'm really looking forward to a central defence partnership of Kaboul & Vertonghen next season, with Sandro back to provide extra cover in the deep midfield role.

Fair point. Still doesn't address the issue of your two full backs though. How Walker won the young player of the year award a couple of years back is still a mystery to me. His positional sense is way off, and there's a potential mistake in him every time I see him. The same goes for Dawson. As for BAE; sorry, but no.

Amazingly enough, Walker has as many goals & assists this season (6) as Chelsea's Oscar.

I would agree that there are areas of his game where he needs to improve, but he's still a relative youngster playing his first season in Tottenham's first XI.

Defenders tend to get better with experience and they normally only reach their peak during their late 20s.

I like Benny but he hasn't had the best of seasons. With Danny Rose back from an excellent loan spell at Sunderland and Kyle Naughton as another option, I think we have strong choices at left back for 2013-14.

 

[Dzeko's Right Boot]

Solid defence? Seriously? Their back 4 is distinctly average, in my opinion. Granted, Vertonghen looks a decent player (not the finished article yet though), but the other three are nothing special. Walker is a candidate for the most over-rated player in the premiership, I can't see how Assou-Ekotto holds down a place in a PL back 4 and Dawson simply isn't top drawer. To be fair to the current mob though, defence has always been Spurs' weak point going back to when I used to see them at Maine Road back in the seventies.

You should bear in mind that our regular starter at centre-half, Younes Kaboul, has been out injured for the entire season, bar the first game against Newcastle.

I'm really looking forward to a central defence partnership of Kaboul & Vertonghen next season, with Sandro back to provide extra cover in the deep midfield role.

Fair point. Still doesn't address the issue of your two full backs though. How Walker won the young player of the year award a couple of years back is still a mystery to me. His positional sense is way off, and there's a potential mistake in him every time I see him. The same goes for Dawson. As for BAE; sorry, but no.

I remember at the start of 2013 their defence was excellent. They conceded very few goals which was what put them among the top 4 in the first place. Their recent slide has coincided with the absence of the brilliant Sandro and the return of the awful 'Scotty' Parker. Their defence is good. Though your point on Assou-Ekotto is very valid. He's just a bad[/] defender.

 

[bleed.blue]

Last season Adebayor and Dempsey scored 34 goals between them. This season they've scored 9! Sygurdson and Caulker looked great at Swansea, yet average for you. Caulker in particular must be a worry. Walker was YPOTY, but has a had a stinker. Defoe has played twice as many minutes, yet has scored the same amount of goals! Parker has turned from your POTY, to your worse player. Naughton had a good season at Norwich, but now looks like he'd be out place in the Championship. Lennon is now scoring and making assists at a slower rate than last year. Dembele started brilliantly at Fulham, but his form has declined the longer he's been under AVB. Basically only Bale has had a good season.

While I don't rate AVB much, but I dont think you can blame him for all these things.
Adebayor, we all know he is not the same player when he has a contract behind him as compared to when he is chasing a contract.
Dempsey is the kind of player who will be very good at a mid to lower table club but will struggle at a top club.
Walker's POTY was a joke, he only has pace and strength, not a footballing brain and it was always like that.
Naughton again is punching above his weight at a top level club just like Dempsey
Lennon has always been inconsistent, nothing new there.
Dembele has been really good at Tottenham given his skill levels.

Amazingly enough, Walker has as many goals & assists this season (6) as Chelsea's Oscar.

hahahaha you expect people to take you seriously after posting such carp.

 

[bleed.blue]

He isn't a decent manager. At best he's average. He's lost 3 cups, two of which we should have won and we were in the title race before he arrived. Now we're in the "top 4 race". Chelsea always finishes the season strong. We're always good at this stage when the going gets tough. Sooner he's gone the better. He continues to play Torres over Ba for no reason and his general selections are incredibly bizarre. Always, ALWAYS makes like for like substitutions at around the 70th minute - whether the game is going well or not. With the squad we have we should be title contenders, Benitez has us scraping into CL qualification and you reckon he's a decent manager?

RDM with hardly any managerial experience was twice the manager he is, and had us top of the table until Clattenburg. And he did that without Ba.

I cant believe people still rate RDM. He got extremely lucky at CL last season and this season by the time he was sacked, you guys were falling down into a spiral.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

 

[Matty]

Amazingly enough, Walker has as many goals & assists this season (6) as Chelsea's Oscar.

hahahaha you expect people to take you seriously after posting such carp.

Yeah, that stat seemed a bit fishy to me too.<br /><br />-- Tue May 07, 2013 10:19 am --<br /><br />

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

Yeah but RDM won the Champion's League, what has Rafa ever........oh.

 

[Castiel]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

In the context of Chelsea. I don't care what Rafa did at Liverpool or Valencia. If we're going to account for history explain how he fucked an Inter Milan side that had won a treble immediately before he arrived? RDM won 2 cups and had us in the title race without a competent striker. Rafa has Ba and won't even play him. He dragged us into the top 4 dogfight and lost two cups we should have won (with RDM doing all the legwork for him).

I have no idea why he's so highly rated here, but you'd better pray he doesn't end up at City or you'll be begging for Sparky back.

 

[Matty]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

In the context of Chelsea. I don't care what Rafa did at Liverpool or Valencia. If we're going to account for history explain how he fucked an Inter Milan side that had won a treble immediately before he arrived? RDM won 2 cups and had us in the title race without a competent striker. Rafa has Ba and won't even play him. He dragged us into the top 4 dogfight and lost two cups we should have won (with RDM doing all the legwork for him).

I have no idea why he's so highly rated here, but you'd better pray he doesn't end up at City or you'll be begging for Sparky back.

I assume the 2 cups you should have won are the League Cup and the World Club Championship?

I'm no Rafa fan but at Inter he inherited a squad Mourinho knew were aging and needed a complete rework, he didn't do very well at it. RDM did indeed win 2 cups, but he also was sacked by West Brom for not being good enough. All managers have their ups and downs.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

In the context of Chelsea. I don't care what Rafa did at Liverpool or Valencia. If we're going to account for history explain how he fucked an Inter Milan side that had won a treble immediately before he arrived? RDM won 2 cups and had us in the title race without a competent striker. Rafa has Ba and won't even play him. He dragged us into the top 4 dogfight and lost two cups we should have won (with RDM doing all the legwork for him).

I have no idea why he's so highly rated here, but you'd better pray he doesn't end up at City or you'll be begging for Sparky back.

If Benitez hadn't had his little pop at Chelsea fans those few years ago then I'd argue that 75% of Chelsea's fanbase wouldn't hold this blind opinion that di Matteo is not only a better manager than Rafa, but twice as good?

Come, the fuck, off it.

Normally, I'm not a fan of people excusing di Matteo's CL success as luck but they do have a point. Inept finishing and the Drogba factor was the main reason for that CL success. It didn't put it down to tactical genius from RDM. Barca could have scored 5 at Stamford Bridge. They could have scored 10 at the Nou Camp. Messi missed a penalty. Bayern should have been out of sight in the final. Robben missed a penalty.

The following year and you were eliminated from the CL under RDM and, at the point of him being sacked, Chelsea had won only 2 out of their last 8 games (or something like that). Benitez has had to work under immense pressure from his own supporters during this time. He's probably going to win the Europa League which, whilst it's no CL, it's certainly not to be sniffed at, especially when you see how City, United, Spurs etc have struggled to win this competition in recent years. He's basically a home win against Spurs away from securing a CL spot next season. The FA cup run was halted by the (at the time) current Premier League champions, just one round after beating the new Premier League champions in a replay, despite dominating United at Old Trafford in the first match.

He's the only manager of recent times to have toppled the Real Madrid/Barcelona dominance in Spain and he's won the CL & FA Cup with Liverpool.

I agree that his spell with Inter can be regarded as a relative failure but that black spot on his CV is a rare one. He's still leagues above RDM and RDM will never topple Benitez's honours list.

As I've said, had Benitez not been "disliked" by Chelsea fans prior to his appointment, and RDM wasn't such a fans-favourite, then I don't think you, or the majority of your fanbase, would state that RDM is twice the manager Benitez is.

You've even branded AVB as an average manager but I'd put him in a league above RDM too.

 

[NipHolmes]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

In the context of Chelsea. I don't care what Rafa did at Liverpool or Valencia. If we're going to account for history explain how he fucked an Inter Milan side that had won a treble immediately before he arrived? RDM won 2 cups and had us in the title race without a competent striker. Rafa has Ba and won't even play him. He dragged us into the top 4 dogfight and lost two cups we should have won (with RDM doing all the legwork for him).

I have no idea why he's so highly rated here, but you'd better pray he doesn't end up at City or you'll be begging for Sparky back.

If Benitez hadn't had his little pop at Chelsea fans those few years ago then I'd argue that 75% of Chelsea's fanbase wouldn't hold this blind opinion that di Matteo is not only a better manager than Rafa, but twice as good?

Come, the fuck, off it.

Normally, I'm not a fan of people excusing di Matteo's CL success as luck but they do have a point. Inept finishing and the Drogba factor was the main reason for that CL success. It didn't put it down to tactical genius from RDM. Barca could have scored 5 at Stamford Bridge. They could have scored 10 at the Nou Camp. Messi missed a penalty. Bayern should have been out of sight in the final. Robben missed a penalty.

The following year and you were eliminated from the CL under RDM and, at the point of him being sacked, Chelsea had won only 2 out of their last 8 games (or something like that). Benitez has had to work under immense pressure from his own supporters during this time. He's probably going to win the Europa League which, whilst it's no CL, it's certainly not to be sniffed at, especially when you see how City, United, Spurs etc have struggled to win this competition in recent years. He's basically a home win against Spurs away from securing a CL spot next season. The FA cup run was halted by the (at the time) current Premier League champions, just one round after beating the new Premier League champions in a replay, despite dominating United at Old Trafford in the first match.

He's the only manager of recent times to have toppled the Real Madrid/Barcelona dominance in Spain and he's won the CL & FA Cup with Liverpool.

I agree that his spell with Inter can be regarded as a relative failure but that black spot on his CV is a rare one. He's still leagues above RDM and RDM will never topple Benitez's honours list.

As I've said, had Benitez not been "disliked" by Chelsea fans prior to his appointment, and RDM wasn't such a fans-favourite, then I don't think you, or the majority of your fanbase, would state that RDM is twice the manager Benitez is.

You've even branded AVB as an average manager but I'd put him in a league above RDM too.

Nailed it.

I have time for Castiel but any Chelsea fan who can't say well done to Rafa who's semi-finalled FA Cup, top 4 in league (main objective) and runner up or winner of Uefa cup with a team he's taken on without any of his own signings.

Players and fans undermining yet he gets on with the job.

It'd be nice if they fucked up top 4 and lost the final, as penance for the shit they gave Rafa.

Di Matteo was sacked by WBA because he wasn't all that. He was at the right place at the right time with Chelsea and the siege mentality took them far.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

I can't believe someone has just said that RDM is twice the manager Rafa is.

Heart over head if ever I've seen it.

In the context of Chelsea. I don't care what Rafa did at Liverpool or Valencia. If we're going to account for history explain how he fucked an Inter Milan side that had won a treble immediately before he arrived? RDM won 2 cups and had us in the title race without a competent striker. Rafa has Ba and won't even play him. He dragged us into the top 4 dogfight and lost two cups we should have won (with RDM doing all the legwork for him).

I have no idea why he's so highly rated here, but you'd better pray he doesn't end up at City or you'll be begging for Sparky back.

I assume the 2 cups you should have won are the League Cup and the World Club Championship?

I'm no Rafa fan but at Inter he inherited a squad Mourinho knew were aging and needed a complete rework, he didn't do very well at it. RDM did indeed win 2 cups, but he also was sacked by West Brom for not being good enough. All managers have their ups and downs.

They were only 3 months older than when Mourinho left. They had a season at least in them for him to rebuild its just that he is behind the times now

 

[BlueHammer85]

Rafa's done a fantastic job at Chelsea, it will some Abramovich up when he just gets rid of him without a thanks

 

[THFC6061]

SPURS TEAM NEWS FOR CHELSEA AWAY...

Mousa Dembele and Aaron Lennon are in the squad for the huge clash at Chelsea on Wednesday night.

Mousa departed early from Saturday's 1-0 win against Southampton while Aaron was substituted on the hour mark.

Andre explained both players had 'discomfort and tightness' against the Saints.

"Mousa and Aaron will be selected, whether or not they will be available is something we prefer to hold onto and let people know when we get there," said Andre.

"They had discomfort and tightness against Southampton and we decided not to risk them.

"As we took that decision, it means they are still in the frame for making this game.

"We have one player recovered, Jake Livermore, and three players out - Sandro, Gallas and Kaboul."

 

[Breaker]

SPURS TEAM NEWS FOR CHELSEA AWAY...

-------------Bale-----------
10 mugs

should be a good game.