The Tottenham Thread 12/13

[FrostyNRG]

I think with Spurs improvement in the last few years, they feel more like United's rivals than their cannon fodder. I'd be extremely surprised to see any of them shrug a bad result off tomorrow. They can certainly compete in a match, and are a few signings off competing over a full season against them and us.

That's a much more accurate reflection of me and the Spurs fans I know. At the start of the season my prediction for the league was:
1. City
2. Chelsea
3/4/5 between Spurs, Arsenal & Man U.

I genuinely thought we had a chance of finishing third, and really did not expect Man U to be as competitive as they have been this year. Like many, I feel they are starting to decline a little. I may well have been correct had Van Persie not had the start there that he has.

Perhaps thinking we had a chance of third (and I still do to be honest, although far from confident) means I fall into the category of being arrogant and deluded in the eyes of some. I much prefer to just consider myself an optimist though!

 

[FrostyNRG]

Well fielded Sir, get yourself down to the Oval ;)

There is, however, a feeling amongst blues that there is some empathy for the dark side at your Club and within your fanbase. Not helped by the clearly duplicitous self interest shown in becoming a signatory to the Arsenal/Rags/Dipper FFP letter.

Haha, thank you!

I understand that feeling amongst your fan base, of course I do. I just think that possibly that a number of City fans over estimate our feelings towards (I'll refer to them this way to curry some favour!) the "rags". I don't hate them, and a part of me is grateful that they stopped Arsenal and/or Chelsea potentially becoming dominant. There is certainly no love for them either though.

Equally, I don't hate City. Do I wish they hadn't got the investment they got? Yes. Am I jealous of the sucess they are having and are likely to have? Yes. Am I bitter about it? No. It's quite possible to want what another party has without the need for hating the party that has it.

 

[Manc in London]

You know more Spurs than me? Do you have more friends too? Is your dad bigger than my dad?

I don't know what makes you more knowledgable about Spurs fans than I do. I have lived and worke in the Enfield, Haringey and Barnet areas for 10 years, I have a significant number of friends, colleagues and acquaintances, my missus goes home and away to watch Spurs(and is among the top ST points holders at WHL - about 1500), I have been to WHL (in the home end) on many occasion as well as attending a number of Spurs away games in Europe. I think you underestimate how well I know Spurs fans.

I have met several Spurs fans who dislike City. We are now disliked because of the money issue. Previously we were disliked for 'being a small club with no fans'.

As for the West Ham rivalry being one way...I asuure you that you are wrong. Maybe West Ham fans are a little more enthusiastic about the rivalry but in my experience, true Spurs fans dislike the Hammers.

 

[bleed.blue]

FrostyNRG is really defending the indefensible.

But I do like your point about having sympathy for scum because they kept your local rivals off trophies. Most of your fans now club us with chelsea because of the money at our club and frequently throw statements like "Man City are ruining football".

That latest FFP gimmick on Arsenal paperhead has only served to bring all you guys closer to your lord mothership that is Manchester United. I am starting to observe similar behavior amongst my Arsenal supporting mates as well.

 

[lloydie]

Well fielded Sir, get yourself down to the Oval ;)

There is, however, a feeling amongst blues that there is some empathy for the dark side at your Club and within your fanbase. Not helped by the clearly duplicitous self interest shown in becoming a signatory to the Arsenal/Rags/Dipper FFP letter.

Haha, thank you!

I understand that feeling amongst your fan base, of course I do. I just think that possibly that a number of City fans over estimate our feelings towards (I'll refer to them this way to curry some favour!) the "rags". I don't hate them, and a part of me is grateful that they stopped Arsenal and/or Chelsea potentially becoming dominant. There is certainly no love for them either though.

Equally, I don't hate City. Do I wish they hadn't got the investment they got? Yes. Am I jealous of the sucess they are having and are likely to have? Yes. Am I bitter about it? No. It's quite possible to want what another party has without the need for hating the party that has it.

That's an entirely reasonable attitude, some of your compadres should take a leaf out of your book. Welcome to BM.

 

[FrostyNRG]

You know more Spurs than me? Do you have more friends too? Is your dad bigger than my dad?

I don't know what makes you more knowledgable about Spurs fans than I do. I have lived and worke in the Enfield, Haringey and Barnet areas for 10 years, I have a significant number of friends, colleagues and acquaintances, my missus goes home and away to watch Spurs(and is among the top ST points holders at WHL - about 1500), I have been to WHL (in the home end) on many occasion as well as attending a number of Spurs away games in Europe. I think you underestimate how well I know Spurs fans.

I have met several Spurs fans who dislike City. We are now disliked because of the money issue. Previously we were disliked for 'being a small club with no fans'.

As for the West Ham rivalry being one way...I asuure you that you are wrong. Maybe West Ham fans are a little more enthusiastic about the rivalry but in my experience, true Spurs fans dislike the Hammers.

Oh come on, that wasn't a comment designed to start a pissing contest. Fair enough, you know a lot of Spurs fans. I made an assumption that I know more than you and perhaps I'm wrong. Apologies for that. My point kind of stands though, that I don't think the impression you have of Spurs fans is an accurate on. With that being said, let me make it clear that this is my opinion, and I don't mean to present it as fact. Like you, I'm only judging on what I see for myself. I just don't know many fans that actively dislike City as an entity. Disliking that you are better than us and that you got where we wanted to be a lot more quickly, overtaking us in the process, is not the same as disliking the club and its fan.

And I assure that I'm not wrong about West Ham. I have no love for West Ham by any stretch of the imagination, but I get no particular joy when they lose and just don't see them as "major" rivals. Most fans I know feel the same way. Again, though, this is ultimately about personal experience I guess. I assume you are trying to infer that I'm not a "true Spurs fan" (not sure what constitutes one then), but you're pretty wide of the mark there. Again, apologies if you didn't mean it like that.

 

[FrostyNRG]

FrostyNRG is really defending the indefensible.

I'm not really defending anything, I'm not sure there is anything to defend!

I'm just saying what I know for sure about how I personally feel about the two Manchester clubs and how the vast majority of other fans I know do.

At the end of the day, everyone is going to have their own impression about other sets of fans; it was ever thus. But every opinion will be skewed, potentially, by the fans that you know personally and will not necessarily be indicative of the majority. I've met City fans who are an absolute credit to the group, and I've met some that even the most staunch Blue would not want to be associated it. It's just the way it is.

 

[FrostyNRG]

And, while I'm on and being opinionated, this whole argument about the money has possibly become the most boring debate in the history of the sport - ranking alongside the utterly futile which club is "the biggest".

I can honestly say that only a tiny fraction of all football fans I know (with various allegiances) have every made a comment along the lines of "Man City are ruining/have ruined football". My take on it is that fans of most clubs (with the possible exception of your main rivals) are actually fairly apathetic about it. Make the assumption that Man City would have been outside the top six without the takeover (which is not necessarily a fair assumption anyway), it's only had a significant impact on a handful of clubs, as most clubs are not affected at all by who is winning the league or finishing in the top four.

Man U have obviously been affected, and Chelsea too, in terms of likelihood of winning the title. Spurs fans, and Arsenal fans too now I suppose, would say it's made it harder for us to finish in the magical top four. That is probably why fans of these clubs appear to the most "bitter", as they all have a faction within their base that are very vocal about how it shouldn't have been allowed.

However, in my experience most fans do not see it this way. Even most Arsenal fans, who supposedly all crow about the fact that they are doing it the "right way" and what Man City have done is "unfair", really don't think that there is anything wrong with what's happened. For the most part, fans just wish it had happened to their club and that is just not the same as being bitter about.

 

[Castiel]

Its rich that the likes of United, Arsenal and Liverpool get so upset about their chances of finishing in the "magical top 4" because of the evil money City and Chelsea injected into the game when they advocated the creation of the champions league cartel when they were G14 members.

They created this shitstorm. We're playing by their rulebook.

 

[THFC6061]

The rags call it "Three Point Lane." I remeber being pissed off after the rags win there last seasonl, went on Glory Glory and most of the comments were "at least it stops Citeh winning the league!"

Then maybe there is a great deal of truth in the accusations that they are a deluded sent of fans. It was certainly a "gimme" for them for a fair few years, but as I have just said they've won twice in the last five seasons and I really doubt it will be 3 in 6 after tomorrow.

In terms of people commenting on it stopping City winning the league, I don't really understand that. I know I was pissed off that we lost, and certainly every fellow fan I know was. Give me the hypothetical choice of us winning that game and City winning that title or losing it and Man U winning the title and it's the easiest decision I'll ever have to make.

How about I rephrase the question as; who, out of City and United would you prefer to win the title?

If I was to answer that, I'd go for City over United every time.

I've always felt that Spurs/City/Everton have many things in common against Arsenal/United/Liverpool.