The Tottenham Thread 12/13

[moomba]

This fight for top 4 is getting more interesting than the relegation scrap. If we beat Wigan I honestly wouldn't mind a loss at WHL if it keeps Chelsea or Arsenal out of top 4. Still really want Chelsea to miss out (Don't have anything against them they're just clearly the biggest threat to us).

You realize that if we make the CL, City have a better chance of being in Pot 2 in the draw? You don't want another group of death, pass the word on to Mancini! ;)

Better clubs in pot 3 than pot 2 this year.

 

[bleed.blue]

This fight for top 4 is getting more interesting than the relegation scrap. If we beat Wigan I honestly wouldn't mind a loss at WHL if it keeps Chelsea or Arsenal out of top 4. Still really want Chelsea to miss out (Don't have anything against them they're just clearly the biggest threat to us).

You realize that if we make the CL, City have a better chance of being in Pot 2 in the draw? You don't want another group of death, pass the word on to Mancini! ;)

Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker.

When deciding pots, it does not matter which other teams from the country are present. Manchester City's pot will only be decided based on our performances in Champions League/Europa League in the last 5 seasons.

 

[GHoddle]

This fight for top 4 is getting more interesting than the relegation scrap. If we beat Wigan I honestly wouldn't mind a loss at WHL if it keeps Chelsea or Arsenal out of top 4. Still really want Chelsea to miss out (Don't have anything against them they're just clearly the biggest threat to us).

You realize that if we make the CL, City have a better chance of being in Pot 2 in the draw? You don't want another group of death, pass the word on to Mancini! ;)

Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker.

When deciding pots, it does not matter which other teams from the country are present. Manchester City's pot will only be decided based on our performances in Champions League/Europa League in the last 5 seasons.

lol the irony of you saying that is hilarious, given that you've either blatantly misunderstood the rules or my point or both.

We are slightly below you in coefficient points. Arsenal and Chelsea are above you. So one of them being displaced moves City up a spot. So if you were the 17th placed team in the group stages with Arsenal and Chelsea both in it, you would be 16th place in the draw with only one of them and Spurs in it. You would be 15th place with Spurs and Everton in it. The difference between 17th and 16th is the difference between Pot 3 and Pot 2 in the draw. Maybe THFC can dig out a chart or graph to prove me right. ;)

It's also worth noting that Dortmund winning the CL would push you down 1 place as opposed to any of the other teams winning it.

 

[bleed.blue]

You realize that if we make the CL, City have a better chance of being in Pot 2 in the draw? You don't want another group of death, pass the word on to Mancini! ;)

Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker.

When deciding pots, it does not matter which other teams from the country are present. Manchester City's pot will only be decided based on our performances in Champions League/Europa League in the last 5 seasons.

lol the irony of you saying that is hilarious, given that you've either blatantly misunderstood the rules or my point or both.

We are slightly below you in coefficient points. Arsenal and Chelsea are above you. So one of them being displaced moves City up a spot. So if you were the 17th placed team in the group stages with Arsenal and Chelsea both in it, you would be 16th place in the draw with only one of them and Spurs in it. You would be 15th place with Spurs and Everton in it. The difference between 17th and 16th is the difference between Pot 3 and Pot 2 in the draw. Maybe THFC can dig out a chart or graph to prove me right. ;)

It's also worth noting that Dortmund winning the CL would push you down 1 place as opposed to any of the other teams winning it.

Arrogance and being always wrong don't go well together.
Here you go genius

<a class="postlink" href="http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... k2013.html</a>

We are ranked 22nd, you are ranked 24th.
Dortmund are 12 points behind us at the moment and they cannot make that difference up even if they win the CL. So wrong once again.

 

[GHoddle]

Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker.

When deciding pots, it does not matter which other teams from the country are present. Manchester City's pot will only be decided based on our performances in Champions League/Europa League in the last 5 seasons.

lol the irony of you saying that is hilarious, given that you've either blatantly misunderstood the rules or my point or both.

We are slightly below you in coefficient points. Arsenal and Chelsea are above you. So one of them being displaced moves City up a spot. So if you were the 17th placed team in the group stages with Arsenal and Chelsea both in it, you would be 16th place in the draw with only one of them and Spurs in it. You would be 15th place with Spurs and Everton in it. The difference between 17th and 16th is the difference between Pot 3 and Pot 2 in the draw. Maybe THFC can dig out a chart or graph to prove me right. ;)

It's also worth noting that Dortmund winning the CL would push you down 1 place as opposed to any of the other teams winning it.

Arrogance and being always wrong don't go well together.
Here you go genius

<a class="postlink" href="http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... k2013.html</a>

We are ranked 22nd, you are ranked 24th.
Dortmund are 12 points behind us at the moment and they cannot make that difference up even if they win the CL. So wrong once again.

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you.

You are ranked 22nd, but a few of the teams above you won't be in the draw (Liverpool for instance). If 15 or fewer teams above you make it to the group stages next season you will be in Pot 2. So Arsenal or Chelsea missing out would move you one spot up since they would not be present for the draw.

I await your apology.... :)

 

[moomba]

We'll be in pot 3.

As will Spurs (if they make it).

Wasn't aware that champions league winners got pot 1. Not too bothered though as you're going to get a decent team from pot 1 no matter the group.

 

[bleed.blue]

lol the irony of you saying that is hilarious, given that you've either blatantly misunderstood the rules or my point or both.

We are slightly below you in coefficient points. Arsenal and Chelsea are above you. So one of them being displaced moves City up a spot. So if you were the 17th placed team in the group stages with Arsenal and Chelsea both in it, you would be 16th place in the draw with only one of them and Spurs in it. You would be 15th place with Spurs and Everton in it. The difference between 17th and 16th is the difference between Pot 3 and Pot 2 in the draw. Maybe THFC can dig out a chart or graph to prove me right. ;)

It's also worth noting that Dortmund winning the CL would push you down 1 place as opposed to any of the other teams winning it.

Arrogance and being always wrong don't go well together.
Here you go genius

<a class="postlink" href="http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... k2013.html</a>

We are ranked 22nd, you are ranked 24th.
Dortmund are 12 points behind us at the moment and they cannot make that difference up even if they win the CL. So wrong once again.

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you.

You are ranked 22nd, but a few of the teams above you won't be in the draw (Liverpool for instance). If 15 or fewer teams above you make it to the group stages next season you will be in Pot 2. So Arsenal or Chelsea missing out would move you one spot up since they would not be present for the draw.

I await your apology.... :)

keep awaiting because your fancy what-ifs are as far away from reality as possible.

 

[GHoddle]

We'll be in pot 3.

As will Spurs (if they make it).

Wasn't aware that champions league winners got pot 1. Not too bothered though as you're going to get a decent team from pot 1 no matter the group.

You were in Pot 2 last year but it kind of depends which teams in the other top leagues qualify for the CL positions. For instance if Inter qualified over teams like Fiorentina, then we would both be pushed down a spot because Inter have a higher coefficient than either of us. Or Freiberg qualifying over Schalke would push us both higher since Schalke have a higher coefficient.

Liverpool, Inter, and Valencia right now look like they won't qualify so that moves you from 22nd to 19th, you would need 3 more teams above not to qualify in order to make it into the 2nd pot.

 

[moomba]

I'm aware of how it works.

We'll be in pot 3. And that doesn't bother me as if the season ended today pot 3 will avoid the likes of Dortmund (if they don't win this year), Juventus, Zenit, Ajax. Teams the will be in pot 2 don't look as strong.

 

[GHoddle]

Arrogance and being always wrong don't go well together.
Here you go genius

<a class="postlink" href="http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2013.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... k2013.html</a>

We are ranked 22nd, you are ranked 24th.
Dortmund are 12 points behind us at the moment and they cannot make that difference up even if they win the CL. So wrong once again.

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you.

You are ranked 22nd, but a few of the teams above you won't be in the draw (Liverpool for instance). If 15 or fewer teams above you make it to the group stages next season you will be in Pot 2. So Arsenal or Chelsea missing out would move you one spot up since they would not be present for the draw.

I await your apology.... :)

keep awaiting because your fancy what-ifs are as far away from reality as possible.

"Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker."

Sorry I thought we were talking about the rules, not whether my "what ifs" are realistic. By the rules, I'm right and you're wrong and you are being a sore loser about it. Not my fault you made a sarcastic comment and got totally proven wrong.

I'm aware of how it works.

We'll be in pot 3. And that doesn't bother me as if the season ended today pot 3 will avoid the likes of Dortmund (if they don't win this year), Juventus, Zenit, Ajax. Teams the will be in pot 2 don't look as strong.

I don't want to harp on about it but Juventus and PSG are both certain to be in pot 2.

 

[moomba]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you.

You are ranked 22nd, but a few of the teams above you won't be in the draw (Liverpool for instance). If 15 or fewer teams above you make it to the group stages next season you will be in Pot 2. So Arsenal or Chelsea missing out would move you one spot up since they would not be present for the draw.

I await your apology.... :)

keep awaiting because your fancy what-ifs are as far away from reality as possible.

"Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker."

Sorry I thought we were talking about the rules, not whether my "what ifs" are realistic. By the rules, I'm right and you're wrong and you are being a sore loser about it. Not my fault you made a sarcastic comment and got totally proven wrong.

I'm aware of how it works.

We'll be in pot 3. And that doesn't bother me as if the season ended today pot 3 will avoid the likes of Dortmund (if they don't win this year), Juventus, Zenit, Ajax. Teams the will be in pot 2 don't look as strong.

I don't want to harp on about it but Juventus and PSG are both certain to be in pot 2.

Juventus is currently the 17th highest ranked team currently in a qualifying position. Unless things change they will be in pot 3. PSG is 16th which is why I didn't quote them as a team that we would avoid in pot 3. Although if one of the teams above them move into a qualifying position from outside of one, or Dortmund win this seasons comp (if that does get you into pot 1) they could drop into pot 3 as well.

FWIW if the season ended today the pots would be:

1 - Barca, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Rags, Arsenal, Porto, Benfica
2 - Atletico Madrid, Lyon, Shaktar Donetsk, Milan, Schalke, Marseilles, CSKA Moscow, PSG
3 - Juventus, Zenit, City, Ajax, Mentalists, Basel, Dortmund

Stopped looking after Dortmund.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you. I await your apology.... :)

No they don't. Where on earth did you conjure that one up from? Was it the same source that thinks Spurs are a top 4 team?

 

[GHoddle]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you. I await your apology.... :)

No they don't. Where on earth did you conjure that one up from? Was it the same source that thinks Spurs are a top 4 team?

The previous year's winner is always the first seed, it's just a fact.<br /><br />-- Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:50 am --<br /><br />

keep awaiting because your fancy what-ifs are as far away from reality as possible.

"Spurs fan in not knowing the rules shocker."

Sorry I thought we were talking about the rules, not whether my "what ifs" are realistic. By the rules, I'm right and you're wrong and you are being a sore loser about it. Not my fault you made a sarcastic comment and got totally proven wrong.

I'm aware of how it works.

We'll be in pot 3. And that doesn't bother me as if the season ended today pot 3 will avoid the likes of Dortmund (if they don't win this year), Juventus, Zenit, Ajax. Teams the will be in pot 2 don't look as strong.

I don't want to harp on about it but Juventus and PSG are both certain to be in pot 2.

Juventus is currently the 17th highest ranked team currently in a qualifying position. Unless things change they will be in pot 3. PSG is 16th which is why I didn't quote them as a team that we would avoid in pot 3. Although if one of the teams above them move into a qualifying position from outside of one, or Dortmund win this seasons comp (if that does get you into pot 1) they could drop into pot 3 as well.

FWIW if the season ended today the pots would be:

1 - Barca, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Rags, Arsenal, Porto, Benfica
2 - Atletico Madrid, Lyon, Shaktar Donetsk, Milan, Schalke, Marseilles, CSKA Moscow, PSG
3 - Juventus, Zenit, City, Ajax, Mentalists, Basel, Dortmund

Stopped looking after Dortmund.

The likelihood is very, very high that one of those teams either won't qualify, or will get knocked out in the qualifying rounds. Many of those teams have to play a qualifier to participate in the group stage. One of them will probably draw the 4th placed Spanish team whether it's Malaga or Sociedad who I believe will be unseeded.

 

[moomba]

The likelihood is very, very high that one of those teams either won't qualify, or will get knocked out in the qualifying rounds. Many of those teams have to play a qualifier to participate in the group stage. One of them will probably draw the 4th placed Spanish team whether it's Malaga or Sociedad who I believe will be unseeded.

There's also a chance that one of the teams currently not in a qualifying position will qualify for the comp.

Valencia are only 4 points out of one at the moment. Malaga is banned from next years comp at this stage and Sociedad will be unseeded for a reason.

Either way suggesting Juventus are a certainty for pot 2 is just plain wrong. And I'm not sure why you're trying to make out it is a certainty.

 

[Matty]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you. I await your apology.... :)

No they don't. Where on earth did you conjure that one up from? Was it the same source that thinks Spurs are a top 4 team?

PB, I think he might be right.

In most seasons the winner happens to also have a high enough coefficient to be a Pot 1 team anyway, but Dortmund won't have enough points to be there. However, as they are the holders I'm pretty sure they are automatically added to Pot 1.

I realise it's Wikipedia but I can't find anything that says 1 way or the other elsewhere, the following is quoted for this season:-

"The title holders, Chelsea, were automatically seeded into Pot 1"

This makes it seem that Chelsea were seeded in Pot 1 as winners and not due to their coefficient points. That's also born out by Chelsea being the number 1 team in Pot 1 despite their coefficient points score actually ranking them in position 3.

 

[GHoddle]

The likelihood is very, very high that one of those teams either won't qualify, or will get knocked out in the qualifying rounds. Many of those teams have to play a qualifier to participate in the group stage. One of them will probably draw the 4th placed Spanish team whether it's Malaga or Sociedad who I believe will be unseeded.

There's also a chance that one of the teams currently not in a qualifying position will qualify for the comp.

Valencia are only 4 points out of one at the moment. Malaga is banned from next years comp at this stage and Sociedad will be unseeded for a reason.

Either way suggesting Juventus are a certainty for pot 2 is just plain wrong. And I'm not sure why you're trying to make out it is a certainty.

No reason really, I'm not sure why we're arguing about it in the first place besides the one fellow claiming that I didn't know the rules or something.

I still think it's very likely that Juve ends up in Pot 2, to me there seems to be more potential for a team above to drop out than to get back in.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you. I await your apology.... :)

No they don't. Where on earth did you conjure that one up from? Was it the same source that thinks Spurs are a top 4 team?

Erm, it's true, PB.

"The 32 teams will be allocated into four pots based on their 2013 UEFA club coefficients, with the title holders being placed in Pot 1 automatically"

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

lol the CL winner automatically goes in Pot 1. So Dortmund would be above you. I await your apology.... :)

No they don't. Where on earth did you conjure that one up from? Was it the same source that thinks Spurs are a top 4 team?

Erm, it's true, PB.

"The 32 teams will be allocated into four pots based on their 2013 UEFA club coefficients, with the title holders being placed in Pot 1 automatically"

Alright. Apologies GHoddle. But it's definitely not true you're a top 4 team. ;-)

 

[Castiel]

I didn't think Pienaar performed especially well in the games he played for us but after his successful loan to Everton we should have given him another chance under AVB imo. We sold him for way too cheap and he's a perfect squad player who can play on either wing and as an attacking midfielder.

Townsend really looks quality, I think it's good in a way that we loaned him out because we see how good he can be but at the same time I think we should have had backup for Bale and Lennon.

Carroll's definitely played his way into contention for a starting place imo. He's the only player we have who is the type of central midfielder that suits AVB's system. When he comes on it's sort of like the gears and cogs start turning and everything comes together. I think he's a quality player but it's more his effect on the team that is valuable.

I think Chelsea have better fullbacks and have one better striker (Ba) than we do. We have better central defenders and I would rather have Lloris than Cech.

This isn't meant to be provocative but why then do we have a +16 goal difference on you? I'd say you beat us in CM but we only completely outclass you in attacking midfield. By the way, Cech won the CL final penalty shoot-out (jumped the correct way for every shot). Maybe he'd end your hoodoo.

 

[Manc in London]

I didn't think Pienaar performed especially well in the games he played for us but after his successful loan to Everton we should have given him another chance under AVB imo. We sold him for way too cheap and he's a perfect squad player who can play on either wing and as an attacking midfielder.

Townsend really looks quality, I think it's good in a way that we loaned him out because we see how good he can be but at the same time I think we should have had backup for Bale and Lennon.

Carroll's definitely played his way into contention for a starting place imo. He's the only player we have who is the type of central midfielder that suits AVB's system. When he comes on it's sort of like the gears and cogs start turning and everything comes together. I think he's a quality player but it's more his effect on the team that is valuable.

I think Chelsea have better fullbacks and have one better striker (Ba) than we do. We have better central defenders and I would rather have Lloris than Cech.

This isn't meant to be provocative but why then do we have a +16 goal difference on you? I'd say you beat us in CM but we only completely outclass you in attacking midfield. By the way, Cech won the CL final penalty shoot-out (jumped the correct way for every shot). Maybe he'd end your hoodoo.

Very reasonable. Chelsea have a higher quality of player. Spurs have only one outfield player on a similar level to Oscar, Mata and Hazard. I would also prefer Ba and Torres to Defoe or Adebayor.

As for centre-halves, I cannot think of a Spurs centre-half who is better than Gary Cahill or David Luiz. The 'equivalent' maybe but certainly not 'better'.

As for keepers, I would much rather have Cech than Lloris. Loris has a lot to prove before he can be considered in the same class as Cech. I would rate Hart, Cech, Schwarzer, Krul and Vorm more highly than Lloris. Only once Loris has proven himself in the Prem can he be rated as highly as those listed.

I would not recommend debating with a Spurs fan about who has better players. Last year, many posters on GG thought Spurs had a better first XI than both City and Spurs. We won the league, Chelsea won the CL and Spurs, as they say at the Lane, "wan fack all".